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GTA ONLINE FOR SALE ADS Use this forum to "discuss" GTAs that are advertised for sale online at various used car sites.... eBay, AutoTrader, etc.

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Old 05-27-2011   #1
Scott92GTA
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I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

Here is the link for this TTA on ebay that is being sold by a GM Dealership that should know better??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/turbo...item415a123e0a

For a car with "only 12K miles and never been driven in anything but sunshine" it is amazingly dirty inside and out. Wrong rims yet "retains its original Eagle ZR50 P245/50 ZR 16 tires on the Gold Diamond Spoke Aluminum Wheels", Turbo emblems too far back on fender...

Some peoples idea of "could be a museum piece" is quite different from mine.
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Old 05-27-2011   #2
merc3065
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

also, never been driven in anything but sunshine yet there are some serious water spotting happening on the t-roofs.

I've already sent him a message regarding the wheels as not being originals, same with the center caps. They look to be from a 70s bird.
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Old 05-27-2011   #3
90 L98 TransAm
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

I thought TTAs were GTAs?

Anyhoo check this one out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...SS%3AUS%3A1123
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Old 05-27-2011   #4
djmarch
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

Interesting that the Auto Check Score is "within" range rather than above
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Old 05-27-2011   #5
Scott92GTA
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

I saw that one also and it's a great looking car. But it would be impossible to own it and just let it sit. I drive my GTA on nice days only, but it still gets driven.

I can never understand how these collector/investors figure that no miles would equal big money in the future. With the first muscle car boom you had the low mile rarities bringing big money as those cars were the exceptions to the norm. Now you have so many people who buy and store them thinking it will happen again, but there are too many low mile museum cars to have that happen.

I remember reading about one collector who lives by the motto of drive them like they were meant to be driven. If I remember right he bought a Boss Mustang (can't remember if it was a 302 or 429) and went to pick the car and the seller asked where the trailer was. He said there is no trailer because I'm driving it home. He said the seller almost didn't want him to have the car because all he had done was trailer it to shows.

To each there own I guess but still...drive them!
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Old 05-28-2011   #6
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

You would think they would at least detail the car before taking pictures. The pic of the fender emblem makes the car look filty and also shows a touchup in the paint. Spoiler craqcked on both sides too so it was clearly exposed to wet weather in its life.
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Old 05-28-2011   #7
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott92GTA View Post

I remember reading about one collector who lives by the motto of drive them like they were meant to be driven. If I remember right he bought a Boss Mustang (can't remember if it was a 302 or 429) and went to pick the car and the seller asked where the trailer was. He said there is no trailer because I'm driving it home. He said the seller almost didn't want him to have the car because all he had done was trailer it to shows.

To each there own I guess but still...drive them!
I agree. I mean, I didnt drive my GTA on a daily basis and it sat in the garage most of the time but at least I drove it to cruise nights and car shows. If you cant even drive it to a show and at least enjoy it for that short a time, whats the point of owning it?
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Old 05-28-2011   #8
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

That car is disgusting and no where near an original, and I would bet that is not even the right mileage. This is at a dealer and they didn't even bother to clean the interior carpets? WTF? 14,500 on ebay now and the reserve is not met??? You know they are jocking the bids on there, from the first one. I am still scratching my head on this one. It has been on sale for a while and on EBay a lot. A local guy saw the car on the TTA forum and said it is all rusted on the underside too. WHAT A SHAME IS RIGHT....
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Old 05-28-2011   #9
YumikoGTA
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

I do not think they are. Because in that year both GTAs and TTAs were available. So I think they are different. Does the TTA have any emblems anywhere on it that says "GTA"? Does the RPO sticker on a TTA have the code "Y84"? If it does than perhaps it is considered a GTA with the TTA option, I do not know exactly since I never had one and never knew anyone that had one.

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I thought TTAs were GTAs?
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Old 05-28-2011   #10
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

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Originally Posted by YumikoGTA View Post
I do not think they are. Because in that year both GTAs and TTAs were available. So I think they are different. Does the TTA have any emblems anywhere on it that says "GTA"? Does the RPO sticker on a TTA have the code "Y84"? If it does than perhaps it is considered a GTA with the TTA option, I do not know exactly since I never had one and never knew anyone that had one.

Yumiko
Looking at the Research section of this site for 1989 makes me think that TTAs are indeed the ultimate GTA. Maybe Frankie can clarify:

Y82 -- Package, Trans Am Limited Edition (20th Anniversary) -- 1,550

Y84 -- GTA Option Package -- 8,470
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Old 05-28-2011   #11
YumikoGTA
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

The only thing I can think of is that perhaps these people think that since it has such little miles, that it means nothing is worn out or not too many things need to be replaced. So they would not have to replace much or anything for it to be in great running and operating condition. But after twenty years, I think that regardless of the low miles, things still need to be replaced. Like in the entire brake system for example, even if the 1989 GTA has only six thousand miles on it, they would probably have to still replace the calipers, brake pads, rubber brake hoses, and perhaps rebuild the master cylinder and then replace all of the brake fluid throughout the entire brake system. So a 1989 GTA with one hundred thousand miles that had all of the brake system replaced with new parts compared to a 1989 GTA with six thousand miles on it that had nothing replaced at all, I would trust the car with the new brake parts instead of the one with the old parts.

It could be psychological also. Like a car with one hundred thousand miles on it can never have only six thousand miles on it again. They can restore it and rebuild it, but it will never have six thousand miles on it ever again. I classify this as psychological only because does this issue of it ever being able to have only six thousand miles on it ever again really make a difference or even matter? I do not think so.

One thing for sure to me though is we will know when our GTAs are worth more when complete junk Firebird, Formula, Trans Ams and GTAs sell for high prices. But as long as the junky ones are only sold for low prices, ours will continue to sell for low prices also I think, unless someone who is famous owns one and then sells it. Some people will buy things for very high prices just because a famous person owned it and they can prove that this famous person owned it.

Yumiko

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Originally Posted by Scott92GTA View Post
I can never understand how these collector/investors figure that no miles would equal big money in the future.
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Last edited by YumikoGTA; 05-28-2011 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 05-28-2011   #12
EODsmitty
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

I read it somewhere that TTAs are considered GTAs.

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Old 05-28-2011   #13
YumikoGTA
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

If this is correct, then they must be GTAs with the TTA equipment as an option. I wonder why both GTA and TTA was produced during the same year then. Also why does the TTA not have any emblems at all that say "GTA" on them if it is correct that the TTA is considered a GTA? I would think that the emblems would say something like "TGTA" (Turbo GTA) instead of just "TTA" (Turbo Trans Am).

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Originally Posted by EODsmitty View Post
I read it somewhere that TTAs are considered GTAs.

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Old 05-29-2011   #14
Kman71
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GTA Year: 1989
GTA Engine: 3.8L V6 Turbo
Thumbs Up Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

The TTA's were White GTA's taken off the line and sent to PAS to install the TTA package. The were only 1555 produced and only had two options on the TTA, Leather and T-tops. So if you were one of the lucky one's that just ordered or bought a stock one, there were only 15 made, which is hard top and cloth interior, very rare and worth alot of money. Here are a couple links with all the details of GTA's and TTA's. ENJOY!!!!!!!!


Production

Originally conceived by Bill Owen of Pontiac, the 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am project was outsourced to PAS, Inc., an engineering firm led by Jeff Beitzel. Beitzel and his team did most of the TTA development work. The V6 turbo engines were built by PAS at their 40,000 square foot City of Industry, CA plant. From there, they went to GM's plant in Van Nuys, CA to be installed into GTAs on the F-Body assembly line. The cars were then shipped back to PAS for final assembly, testing, and quality control. Incidentally, the GTA chassis were selected at random, thus there is no correlation between VIN number and production sequence number. The actual number of cars to be produced had ranged from 500 to 2,500 until GM finally settled on 1,500. In all, a total of 1,555 Turbo TAs were manufactured.

Features and Options

The 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am was offered as a complete package. Each was white with saddle (tan) interior, with T-tops and leather interior the only available options. Although other TAs were available with a CD player, the Turbo TA was available only with a Delco ETR AM/FM cassette with graphic EQ and redundant steering wheel controls.

Externally, the TTA closely resembles a GTA. The primary visual clues are Indy "Winged Tire" emblems on the ground effects panel just aft of the front wheel wells, and dual twin stainless-steel exhaust tips. Closer inspection reveals "Turbo" emblems on the front fenders, "20th Anniversary" emblems on the nose and B-pillar, and a "Turbo" insignia between the taillights. Inside, a turbo boost gauge is incorporated into the tachometer face, and there is a "20th Anniversary" logo on the leather map pocket. Special Indy Pace Car stickers were supplied for the windshield and doors. The cars were delivered without the stickers attached - it was up to the individual owner to apply them if desired.

Original Turbo TA owners were sent a special box containing the door and windshield stickers, a Turbo TA keychain, cassette tape, letter of congratulations and a leather owners manual cover. There is a unique owners manual supplement that came with the car. As with most GM vehicles, the Firebird service manual and TTA supplement can be ordered from Helm (publisher of GM service manuals).

Technical Highlights

What makes the 20th Anniversary Turbo TA so special is that it is a complete mechanical package, and not just some tape stripes. Starting with the engine, Pontiac borrowed Buick's 3.8 liter (231cid) V6 turbo powerplant from the fabled 1986-87 Grand National. Some difference exist between the TTA motor and the GN version. Different heads were necessary in order to squeeze the motor between the strut towers. These heads, adapted from the transverse FWD version of the 3.8 liter motor, have the added benefit of improved exhaust flow and combustion chamber design. Subsequently, different pistons were required in order to maintain combustion chamber volume. Other changes to the TTA motor are a cross-drilled crank, larger 12 fin/inch GNX-style intercooler in place of the GN's 10 fin/inch design, specially-designed stainless-steel headers, higher-pressure Bosch 237 fuel pressure regulator, and a recalibrated engine control module.

Mark Grable, writing in the March 1989 Motor Trend, noted the Turbo Trans Am's "250 horses...seem much stronger than run-of-the-mill horses." The reason is simple. Although Pontiac officially rated the engine at 250 HP, in reality it developed an honest 301 HP on the GM dyno.

The Turbo TA came with the rare 1LE racing brake package, which upgrades the front discs to 12 inch police rotors, Corvette twin piston aluminum calipers and semi-metallic pads. These brakes are virtually fade proof, and were installed to legalize the 1LE package for Firehawk endurance racing. The rear discs were also increased to 12 inches in 1989 and use Corvette single piston calipers. All of the brakes on the car are of a quick change design, and pads can actually be changed in 30 seconds.

The only mid-year change made to the Turbo TA during the entire production run was a redesigned turbo inlet tube. The redesigned plastic tube was more durable, and had a clamping rib on either end to keep the hoses attached more securely. Other production changes in 1989 affected the Turbo TA and F-bodies in general. As an example, in March 1989 GM switched from glass to Lexan T-tops in order to save weight. However, the Lexan tops had severe problems with scratching and cracking, and GM had to replace most of them under warranty. During the 1990 production run GM switched back to glass T-tops after having so many problems with the Lexan ones.

Indianapolis 500 Pace Car

The 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am had the honor of being selected as the Official Pace Car of the 73rd Indianapolis 500, held on May 28, 1989. The three cars which did pace car duty were the first in the history of the Indianapolis 500 to do so with no performance modifications whatsoever. The only changes to the car were the usual safety equipment required by Indianapolis Motor Speedway (including a five-point seat belt harness), pace car lighting, and television-related equipment.

Strobe lights were installed into the front fog lights, front turn signals, and side marker lights. An additional set of strobes was inserted into the space between the spoiler and decklid. The rear windows were changed to ones with no defogger grid, so the rear-facing ABC television camera would have a clear view of the track behind.

In addition to three pace cars, an additional 162 "Festival" TTAs were at Indy for VIP and parade duty. All of the cars at Indy, including the three pace cars, had T-tops and cloth interiors.

Approximately one hundred festival cars were sold to GM employees at the fixed price of $25,854.83. It was not a raffle, an interested employee simply had to fill out a form indicating they wanted the car at that price. Price was non-negotiable, and there was no choice of car. These buyers received cars with anywhere from a few hundred to 7,000 miles on them.

As for the three pace cars, one now resides in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum, another is in the Pontiac collection, and one was presented to race winner Emerson Fittipaldi. Emerson loves his Turbo TA, when asked about it he grinned "It's a FAST car!"

Specifications & Performance

(source: Pontiac Motor Division)



engine: 3.8L SFI V6 Intercooled Turbo
rated 250 bhp @ 4400 rpm, 340 lb-ft torque @ 2800 rpm

bore x stroke: 3.800 in. x 3.400 in.
valves: 1.710 in. intake, 1.490 in. exhaust
crankshaft: nodular iron with 4 cross-drilled
main bearings and 6 counterweights
rods: cast Armasteel, 151mm long
pistons: special design, 8.0:1 cr,
46.4mm compression height
maximum boost: 16.5 psi
recommended fuel: pump octane of 91 or greater

trans: 200-4R 4 speed automatic with lockup torque converter

brakes: power 4-wheel disc, dual piston aluminum calipers
vented 12" front, 11.7" rear rotors

chassis: front MacPherson strut
rear live axle, 3.27:1 Borg-Warner "Australian"
limited slip with torque arm
sway bars 36mm front, 24mm rear

wheelbase 101.0"
length 191.6"
width 72.4"
height 50.0"
track f/r 60.7"/61.6"

curb weight: 3346 lbs.
weight dist, f/r: 57.0/43.0

performance: 0-60: 5.5 sec
1/4 mile: 13.5 sec
60-0: 139'
roadholding: 0.86g
weight/hp: 13.4:1

Production Figures

Number Options
------------------------------------------------
1,324 T-Top & Leather Interior
187 T-Top & Cloth Interior
24 Hardtop & Leather Interior
15 Hardtop & Cloth Interior (Base)
------------------------------------------------
1,550 Total Production Cars

4 Pilot Cars with T-Top & Cloth Interior
1 Pilot Cars with Hardtop & Leather Interior
------------------------------------------------
5 Total Pilot (Pre-Production) Cars

================================================
1,555 Total Cars Built

The five pilot TTAs, because they were for pre-production use, were pulled off the Van Nuys assembly line without regard to color and, in fact, they were not white. Because at least two of these pilot cars were sold to private individuals, there are at least two extremely rare, non-white, factory TTAs in existence!

GM did not offer a factory convertible TTA. However, one was created by ASC for PAS president Jeff Beitzel. This car is unique in that its origins are shared with PAS stablemates Syclone and Typhoon and the ASC-built GNX. The world's only ragtop TTA has changed hands several times, and is presently owned by a wealthy Mexican oil baron who loves Pontiacs.



http://89tta.turbobuicks.net/ttahist.htm

http://89tta.turbobuicks.net/ttaspecs.htm#ProdFig

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Old 05-29-2011   #15
Wes
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

Here is a beautiful TTA and the pic of the SPID sticker shows the Y84 option code

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-968...item45fae69b91
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Old 05-29-2011   #16
dwhess504
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

Now that is a a mint TTA, not like that first one that clearly has been abused. I cant believe how nasty it is for 12k miles. look at the interior how worn everyting is.
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Old 05-29-2011   #17
YumikoGTA
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Re: I know it's technically not a GTA, but what a shame

Wow, pretty beautiful. I would say this one was not driven in the rain by how nice it is on the bottom. I wonder why they never had any of the emblems made that had GTA on them since it is considered a GTA.

Yumiko

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Here is a beautiful TTA and the pic of the SPID sticker shows the Y84 option code

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-968...item45fae69b91
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