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Old 07-11-2010   #21
george88gta
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

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Originally Posted by FearThisGTA View Post
Yeah, just keep soaking it, over and over, while trying to turn the remainder of the bolt. If it doesnt turn put some more deep creep on it.
Here is a little trick that works relatively well. Take a small wire brush ( like a toothbrush) and clean off as much of the surface rust as possible. This works well after letting it soak a while in the penetrant. Then get a small pick ( dental pick) and start working the penetrant in to the area where the threads meet the surface of the intake. This helps the penetrant get down deeper in to the rusted threads. Lots of penetrant and patience should resolve this for you. Dont forget to turn the bolt in both directions, also helps break the rust. You will find that if you work the bolt in both directions, things will go smoother, dont try to force the bolt out. If it binds, more penetrant and reverse direction. Once the bolt starts to move, in either direction, you are getting the penetrant down in to the threads. Patience and lots of penetrant. Probably wouldnt hurt to stuff a paper towel down in to the thermostat hole to keep the penetrant out of the cooling system. When you get the bolt out, use a thread restorer or a tap and clean the threads. I wouldnt recommend stainless steel bolts. Aluminum and stainless dont like each other and you could wind up in worse shape later on. Plain bolt and a generous coating of anti-sieze or blue thread locker and you will be fine.
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Old 07-11-2010   #22
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

When you try to break a bolt loose, either rock it (alternate tightening and loosening), or tap the wrench with a hammer. Brute force like a breaker bar doesn't generally work well on the smaller bolts.
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Old 07-11-2010   #23
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Damn, I was up at 4:30 this morning and couldn't go back to sleep because I was thinking about that bolt. I am going to start working on it again at 2:30. This really sucks...
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Old 07-11-2010   #24
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Hopefully things went well for you today with the other bolt. Definitely soak it down with penetrante. I've done that on all of my engine rebuilds and header installs and have never broken an exhaust manifold bolt. Fear and TC are also very correct about the "rocking" motion on the wrench to help loosen the rust.

The key word is patience!!! Soak it down, walk away and do something else (have lunch, watch a game.....), soak it down and do something else.......then try to loosen the bolt. If it still doesn't work, then soak it down......I think you get the picture. Heat from a torch is another alternative but I use that as a last resort - especially on an engine LOL.
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Old 07-11-2010   #25
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Thanks alot GTA50, I am letting it soak as we speak. I went to checker auto parts and they didn't have deep creep, so I bought PB blaster instead. Evey thing came apart just fine, and it was rather easy to take the throttle body off. The other bolt on the water housing came out very easily, and it actually doesn't look very hard to take the entire intake off. Anyways here is what I am working with, taken 5 minutes ago. I have just enough of the bolt left to get vice grips on it.



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Old 07-11-2010   #26
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Wow, that's a good amount of bolt left. You are very lucky it wasn't an even break. That's what I had break on my T-RAM.

Anyway, the TPI is not really that hard to take off at all. The very first repair job I ever did on my car was leaking intake manifold gaskets, which required me to take the entire TPI off to get the intake manifold off. It's not hard. The first time is scary but just label all your wires and hoses and it becomes intuitive. I can rip apart a TPI in less than 1 and a half hours now and remember all the wires and vacuum hoses by memory.
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Old 07-11-2010   #27
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

O man, I only wish I could break something that good!!! LOL
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Old 07-11-2010   #28
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Yeah, I sprayed the thing with PB blaster at around 4 o clock and I still cant get it loose. Its now 7:46 PM here. My hands are sore and I am tired as hell. I just cant get enough grip with the vice grips to get it to turn. Now what? Do I let it soak all night?
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Old 07-11-2010   #29
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Let it soak all night and try it again tomorrow. IF it still doesn't come out, you could try an EZ-out. It's a drill bit that drills into the bolt so you can insert a T-handle and twist it out.
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Old 07-11-2010   #30
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Definitely let it soak and as recommended before, try the "rocking" motion to loosen as well. As Fred noticed, you have a lot of the bolt still sticking out. I obviously don't know what you have on hand, but a nut on the stud and welding it on (after the soaking of course) may work.

Other option, if the gasket hasn't been disturbed and the seal is still good, put the other bolt on, the housing, etc., and take it to a shop to have the remaining bolt extracted. Sort of the last resort for us "do-it-yourself" guys who don't have all of the tools and resources LOL.

Let us know how it works out.
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Old 07-11-2010   #31
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Yeah, I have a brand new gasket to put on it with gasket sealer. Before I took anything else apart, it only leaked when I squeezed the hose. I bet if I put it back together without a thermostat it wouldn't even leak so I could get it to the shop.
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Old 07-11-2010   #32
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

The hard part about removing the intake manifold (from my memory) was all the brackets that you have to disconnect from the manifold before it can be removed.

I do not know anything much about broken bolts like what you have since that has never happened to me before when we work on my GTA. But what I would like to suggest is that when you do put it back together, maybe you can put on the new bolt threads some sort of anti-seize compound. We put that on various bolts on my GTA, especially the exhaust bolts and lug nut threads. From what I understand, it keeps bolts that are in places that have extreme tempuratures and exposures to elements like moisture, it helps to keep them from rusting and freezing in place to the point that when you do want to remove them, they are impossible to remove or like in your situation....break off.

If you drill that bolt out, remember that the bolt is much harder metal than the aluminum intake manifold, so you should be careful not to damage the aluminum.

Good Luck on this work, I hope you can fix it ok.

Yumiko

By the way....I love the photographs.
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Old 07-12-2010   #33
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Thanks Yumiko, I put the car totally back together. That bolt is not going to come out with vice grips, its in there way too tight. I put in the 160 thermostat, new gasket, and gasket sealer. Put back on the throttle body, connected everything back along with the air intake filter. Put the coolant back in. I'm not dealing with it anymore, all I am going to do is screw it up more. I am going to see if it starts in the morning, watch it pour out coolant and feel sorry I bothered. Ill take it to the shop this week, hopefully they can do something about it without taking the whole thing apart. Thanks for the help guys but once again an easy job turned into a nightmare with my car, like always.
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Old 07-12-2010   #34
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

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Originally Posted by BigBadGTA View Post
Thanks Yumiko, I put the car totally back together. That bolt is not going to come out with vice grips, its in there way too tight. I put in the 160 thermostat, new gasket, and gasket sealer. Put back on the throttle body, connected everything back along with the air intake filter. Put the coolant back in. I'm not dealing with it anymore, all I am going to do is screw it up more. I am going to see if it starts in the morning, watch it pour out coolant and feel sorry I bothered. Ill take it to the shop this week, hopefully they can do something about it without taking the whole thing apart. Thanks for the help guys but once again an easy job turned into a nightmare with my car, like always.
I had a lot of GTA work turn into nighmare in the past, nothing broken or anything, but much more work then first thought it would be.

If you had a grinder, you could have perhaps grinded the sides of the bolt a little bit to make it square enought to put on a wrench maybe. I have seen some of my friends who were mechanics do that a long time ago. But in your situation, the bolt could really be so bad that the threads are destroyed and that it will not ever come out.

Next time try not to use breaker bar because with that type of leverage, it is very easy to break something because you really are not aware of how much pressures you are applying. I say this because when we were rebuilding my GTA engine, some of my friends told us not to use large breaker bars and half inch drive size tools. Use the smaller ones so you are more aware of how much pressures your applying.

Please let us know how this turns out.....

Yumiko
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Old 07-12-2010   #35
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

3 things you can do to try and remove it. First try an E-Z out kit. Second, just drill it out carefully. Third, get a torch on it without cutting it. Heat it up so it expands and use the vise grips or E-Z out kit.
I drilled mine out carefully and knew when to stop when I got to the end of the bolt. I measured the other bolt and put tape on the drill bit so I knew when I got to the end. Didn't want to drill through the intake. Drill straight. I also used a drill bit just large enough to take out the meat of the bolt and not the threads. I used a tap and cleaned the threads.
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Old 07-12-2010   #36
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Oh, you didn't put a 160* thermostat in there, did you?! My '95 had a 160* therm in the car when I bought it, and I had NO heat until I figured that out. Also, it may keep your engine from ever going into closed loop, which means you'll have a lot lower gas mileage. I'd seriously reconsider that and put in a 185 if you want a lower temperature.
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Old 07-12-2010   #37
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

I have a hypertech thermomaster chip in it. It changes when it goes into closed loop, and when the drivers fan goes on.
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Old 07-12-2010   #38
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

So I just started it up and it ran great. Started up as soon as I turned the key and purred like a kitten. With the new gasket, and gobs of sealer I put on it it doesn't leak hardly at all, just a few little drops in the 20 min I drove it. It ran smoother than before I started because I cleaned off the back of the throttle body, inside the plenum, and I cleaned off the IAC valve. It is 110 outside today and the car stayed around 190 with the 160 T stat. I got quoted $150 to fix my little problem at the shop. To me $150 is worth it not to have it on the verge of overheating just driving it around town. Now all I need is the new fan switch I want to go with the hypertech chip and I am golden I think. I like that the car feels more powerful as well, because when it gets up to 230-240 it feels dogged down I think. This week I am also getting my rear end serviced because it is leaking. Overall if that $150 quote holds true than I am still happy I guess.
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Old 07-12-2010   #39
george88gta
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadGTA View Post
So I just started it up and it ran great. Started up as soon as I turned the key and purred like a kitten. With the new gasket, and gobs of sealer I put on it it doesn't leak hardly at all, just a few little drops in the 20 min I drove it. It ran smoother than before I started because I cleaned off the back of the throttle body, inside the plenum, and I cleaned off the IAC valve. It is 110 outside today and the car stayed around 190 with the 160 T stat. I got quoted $150 to fix my little problem at the shop. To me $150 is worth it not to have it on the verge of overheating just driving it around town. Now all I need is the new fan switch I want to go with the hypertech chip and I am golden I think. I like that the car feels more powerful as well, because when it gets up to 230-240 it feels dogged down I think. This week I am also getting my rear end serviced because it is leaking. Overall if that $150 quote holds true than I am still happy I guess.
$150 isnt a bad quote in todays environment. Have to ask, why do you want a Hypertech chip? Most of those aftermarket chips only work at wide open throttle ( WOT), how often do you drive at the level? Of course, if you have a defective stock chip, the aftermarket chips are a decent replacement part. Save your money and when you get to a point where you need a new chip ( read that serious mods, cam etc.), get a custom one. Otherwise, save your money. Be advised, the off the shelf Hypretech chips wont handle a cam or head swap. All they get you is a lower fan switch setting. Not a bog deal on a stock engine.
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Old 07-12-2010   #40
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Re: So removing the TB, changing thermostat.

Yeah I know that the hypetech chips are not the best. When I bought the car I got a box with the original radio in it, hypertech thermomaster chip still in the box, and some interior trim pieces. The only reason I installed the chip was to make it run cooler, not for performance. Since I bought the car even back in Wisconsin the car ran really hot. When I brought it into a desert climate It almost overheated twice last summer. Hopefully now with the chip, t stat, fan switch combo I wont have to worry about overheating ever again. I don't think in the winter it will be a problem either now with the chip. It does get very damn cold in the winter here too, last winter we saw low teens. But I am not changing the T stat again, EVER.
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