Pontiac GTA Enhancement information and discussions with Technical DIY and performance tuning information for the hardcore Pontiac GTA Owners and Enthusiasts.
Forum | Register Now | Members | Search | How Do I... | Calendar

Go Back   The GTA Source Page Message Forums > GTA SPECIFIC > GTA TECH

GTA TECH Want to discuss technical topics about your GTA.... engine tuning, mechanical upgrades, problem areas, etc.? Then post it HERE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-06-2010   #41
FearThisGTA
"The only thing to fear is.............fear itself"
 
FearThisGTA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: In front of you....
Posts: 4,742



GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

No. What yo ucan do is remove the fuel pump fuse under the dash, and then spin the motor over a few minutes. This will eliminate any fuel press, then you can remove the filter. hth
__________________


Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
FearThisGTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010   #42
george88gta
Registered User
 
george88gta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: holmes,ny
Posts: 904


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ars2pd View Post
Alright. I found the TPS sensor on the outside mount, looks like an easy replacement as well as the MFS (im assuming its attached to the intake?).

I think what I am going to do, is replace the fuel filter, then replace each part at a time. If it doesnt fix it, I will just take the part back.

Is there a shutoff to change the fuel filter? Or is it pretty easy? Ive never changed one myself on this car.
If you mean the MAF sensor ( you indicate MFS) then yes, it is in the intake hose. It is mounted to the radiator top plastic support and is mounted in between the short hose from the air filter and the 90 degree hose to the throttle body. If you suspect the MAF, you can unplug it. The car will run without a MAF, but you will get a check engine light. Doesnt sound like a MAF problem ,but who knows. The clue I see in your posts is that the car started running better when your friend tapped on the fuel filter. That is where I would start. You may want to invest in some PB or Kroil, the fittings may be a bit rusty. If you damage the fittings on the lines, then you have some work ahead of you. A little patience goes a long way on this vintage automobile. Also, what I do is after I have reconnected the fittings (emphasis is AFTER connected, if you get any anti-seize in the fuel line, it could breakdown and get in to the injectors) , I spread some anti-seize on the fittings and in the area where the fittings meet the lines. Prevents future rust, etc.

Last edited by george88gta; 03-06-2010 at 05:10 PM.
george88gta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010   #43
ars2pd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 25


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

Yea, i meant MAF, sorry lol

So, I went to Oreilly's, they had a code reader.

My car came back with the following codes:

32 and 34

One was that the MAF/MAP sensor too low

The second was EGR failure. My friend said the valve may just be dirty. Autozone has them for $57, while oreilly has them for $100.

Any guesses about the MAF whether its really bad or not or just a bad reading?
ars2pd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010   #44
ars2pd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 25


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

Also picked up some gumout to clean the fuel injector.
ars2pd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010   #45
george88gta
Registered User
 
george88gta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: holmes,ny
Posts: 904


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ars2pd View Post
Yea, i meant MAF, sorry lol

So, I went to Oreilly's, they had a code reader.

My car came back with the following codes:

32 and 34

One was that the MAF/MAP sensor too low

The second was EGR failure. My friend said the valve may just be dirty. Autozone has them for $57, while oreilly has them for $100.

Any guesses about the MAF whether its really bad or not or just a bad reading?
I am guessing that you dont have access to a code reader, correct? OK, first thing you should do is to disconnect the battery and let the car sit for a few muinutes to clear the codes. If you didnt have a check engine light on prior, then you have intermittant error codes being set. As I mentioned, the car will run with the MAF disconnected, so if you suspect the MAF as being the main problem, unplug it and see how the car runs. If the EGR is damaged or sticking, the symptoms are similar to a vacumn leak (high idle, rough running, but it does run), again doesnt sound like your base failure. You are going to have to start replacing parts if you dont have the tools to diagnose the problem. That will get expensive very quickly. I still think the first place to start is the fuel filter. Did you check the air intake system to make sure no little critters built a nest?
If you have access to a fuel pressure guage, look and see what the fuel pressure is doing. However, if the car has beeen sitting that long, the fuel filter needs to go and they are inexpensive and are a necessary maintenance item anyway. You wont be wasting your money.
george88gta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010   #46
ThunderChicken
Hoarder
 
ThunderChicken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fall Branch, TN
Posts: 936


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

Unplugging the under-dash fuse didn't do squat to my car. It ran for 30 minutes after I pulled that fuse. You have to pull the inline fuse by the radiator. I'd also use the Schrader valve to release pressure on the system.

That said, the fuel filter is a $20 fix if you do it yourself. Start there, then CLEAN the MAF and EGR. Make sure the vac lines to the EGR are all intact. There are several possibilities, and it's best to start with the cheapest ones and work your way up.
__________________
Bethany--1988 GTA Trans Am--Flame Red Metallic 305, 1995 V6 Bird, 2001 V6 Bird, 1998 NBM T/A


Click here for Firebird Fest of the Carolinas Information!!
ThunderChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010   #47
ars2pd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 25


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

yea, I dont have access to a code reader except the one at OReilly's.

I forgot to mention I am changing the fuel filter soon.

And I dont have access to a fuel pressure guage Anyone know where i can get that checked for cheap?

However, the check engine just started coming up recently. My buddy has a 96 camaro 5.7L he removed his EGR system out of. Can I use the same EGR valve you think? Didnt know since they are the same engine size. I was also told by a couple other friends that they experienced this with their trans ams / camaros....you sure EGR only causes high idle? I did notice it does run a little rough actually...
ars2pd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010   #48
ThunderChicken
Hoarder
 
ThunderChicken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fall Branch, TN
Posts: 936


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

Nope. The EGR from a '96 is digital, and about $500 from GM. Yours is vacuum-controlled and the other won't work.

And yes, the EGR will make it idle high and run rough, in addition to making your RPMs surge before kickdown (at least in gen 4s for that last part).

The pressure tester is probably one of the rental tools available from Advance/Auto Zone.
__________________
Bethany--1988 GTA Trans Am--Flame Red Metallic 305, 1995 V6 Bird, 2001 V6 Bird, 1998 NBM T/A


Click here for Firebird Fest of the Carolinas Information!!
ThunderChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010   #49
ars2pd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 25


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

$500?!?! Thats retarded. They are on ebay for under $70, and used are only $20 shipped.

Okay, Im going to see if i can get a fuel pressure test done.

Alex
ars2pd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010   #50
george88gta
Registered User
 
george88gta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: holmes,ny
Posts: 904


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ars2pd View Post
$500?!?! Thats retarded. They are on ebay for under $70, and used are only $20 shipped.

Okay, Im going to see if i can get a fuel pressure test done.

Alex
Welcome to the world of computer controlled cars. You are starting out with the most basic controls, OBDI, and not a lot of diagnostic help from the ECM. Watch out for the EGR, a good dealer will ask you questions regarding the original part number etc. Napa will as well. If you have a retailer that has one size fits all, RUN. Dont dig yourself a hole, stay with the basics. Get rid of the fuel filter and see what happens. If you can find a shop that will test your fuel pressure, look for around 42-47 PSI with the vacumn line disconnected, engine idling. After that it gets a bit complicated. It is very difficult to work on these cars without some basic tools, scanner, fuel pressure guage, digital voltmeter, and a good servce manual and the list goes on. If you dont/cant want to invest in the tools, then you need to find a reliable shop. Bottom line is that these cars arent easy to diagnose and repair.
george88gta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010   #51
ars2pd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 25


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

I will get the tools eventually. I am a senior engineering college student, and I havent even owned the car 7 months. I am still paying on it, as well as tuition, so paying $40 for this, $100 for this, etc etc tends to be quite a blow financially especially unemployed.

I love to work on cars, and learn new things. Even though the situation sucks, im getting to know the car better. I do treat it with care, and only want the best for it. It has had, and will always have (as long as I own it) Mobil 1 Oil changes.

Also, what vacuum line should I disconnect?
ars2pd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010   #52
Y84
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 79



GTA Year: 1988
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

This is because the system has a redundant circuit in case of failure. If the primary circuit failures, the fuel pump will receive power via the oil pressure switch. This is why, if cranking the engine and the oil pressure builds, the fuel pump will be triggered despite the primary circuit was disabled. It's a common myth that the fuel pump would be disabled if there's no oil pressure, but that's not how this system works. Instead, the oil pressure switch is used to supply voltage to the fuel pump in case of circuit with the primary circuit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderChicken View Post
Unplugging the under-dash fuse didn't do squat to my car. It ran for 30 minutes after I pulled that fuse. You have to pull the inline fuse by the radiator. I'd also use the Schrader valve to release pressure on the system.
Y84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2010   #53
george88gta
Registered User
 
george88gta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: holmes,ny
Posts: 904


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ars2pd View Post
I will get the tools eventually. I am a senior engineering college student, and I havent even owned the car 7 months. I am still paying on it, as well as tuition, so paying $40 for this, $100 for this, etc etc tends to be quite a blow financially especially unemployed.

I love to work on cars, and learn new things. Even though the situation sucks, im getting to know the car better. I do treat it with care, and only want the best for it. It has had, and will always have (as long as I own it) Mobil 1 Oil changes.

Also, what vacuum line should I disconnect?
To check fuel pressure, you disconnect the vacumn line that runs from the plenum to the top of the fuel pressure regulator. Plug the line to prevent a vacumn leak.
george88gta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2010   #54
EODsmitty
Registered User
 
EODsmitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chester, VA
Posts: 218



GTA Year: 1989
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

Couldnt you just put a pressure gauge on the shrader valve on the fuel rail to check the pressure? They have kits to do this. Since you are at a college, do they have an automotive department? If so, I bet you could get the tools and even a student to check it out for ya. Or maybe even Auto zone like posted above. HTH

Smitty
__________________
I work with people everyday who validate the Peter Principle.
EODsmitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2010   #55
ThunderChicken
Hoarder
 
ThunderChicken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fall Branch, TN
Posts: 936


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

^^What he said. I keep forgetting you can check pressure through the Schrader valve.
__________________
Bethany--1988 GTA Trans Am--Flame Red Metallic 305, 1995 V6 Bird, 2001 V6 Bird, 1998 NBM T/A


Click here for Firebird Fest of the Carolinas Information!!
ThunderChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010   #56
george88gta
Registered User
 
george88gta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: holmes,ny
Posts: 904


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EODsmitty View Post
Couldnt you just put a pressure gauge on the shrader valve on the fuel rail to check the pressure? They have kits to do this. Since you are at a college, do they have an automotive department? If so, I bet you could get the tools and even a student to check it out for ya. Or maybe even Auto zone like posted above. HTH

Smitty
Yes, that is the correct way to check for fuel pressure. The comments about "relieving pressure first" is a safety issue. If you have pressure in the rails and try to attach the pressure guage, you will leak/spray gasoline down on to the intake and heads. Not a big deal if the engine is cold, but can be a pucker moment if the engine is hot. I have been very successful with removing the fuel cap and letting the engine sit for about 15 minutes. The pressure should bleed down in that time frame. Dont forget to tighten the gas cap before driving.
george88gta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010   #57
ars2pd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 25


Re: Problem with my GTA (wont stay running) fuel issue?

Well, Ive been focused on school, and so now im back tackling the problem.

I went to thirdgen.org (have been a member there since march, but never post) and made a post yesterday about the issue.

Seems from searching and responses it seems to be the TPS or AIC.

Did a search here, and found someone with the exact same problem, however, they never posted whether or not it worked for them:

http://www.gtasourcepage.com/forum/s...&highlight=IAC


I was told that the TPS or IAC could throw code 32 and 34, and that its not necessarily EGR as a problem. What do you guys think? Looks like I'm going to clean the IAC valve first...
ars2pd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Repro GTA style wheel casting problem... mikedog GENERAL DISCUSSION (NON-GTA) 0 05-19-2008 10:03 PM
87 gta 305 tpi no start 87 TA GTA TECH 8 01-27-2006 05:13 PM
Overheating Problem - 88 GTA gzipin GTA TECH 5 06-09-2003 09:21 PM
GTA TPI fuel tank/pump assembly GTA91 GTA PARTS FOR SALE 0 10-02-2002 02:46 AM
GTA & Salvage Yard gtayumiko GTA NON-TECH 8 03-13-2002 12:22 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.