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Old 07-06-2007   #1
gtayumiko
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Factory GTA parts

Hello Everybody,

Just wanting to tell you that I was at our local wrecking yard that specializes in 3rd generation Pontiacs. One thing that I have noticed is how everything that is related to factory parts are now completely sold. What I mean by that is, in the early 1990s anytime I was at this particular wrecking yard, I would always see so many factory parts around which most 3rd generation Pontiac owners considered as undesirable parts such as factory exhaust, smog stuff, factory suspension parts, etc. It was common that if someone purchased an engine from this yard that they would leave behind the exhaust parts including cross over pipe and exhaust hangars, etc. However, now if anyone purchases an engine for example, from one of these 3rd generation Pontiacs, they will also purchase the entire exhaust system including cross over exhaust and hangars, etc.

This I think is a very clear indication that these cars are now being restored to factory specifications for collector car purposes. Which this is a good thing for us who own these cars since we are anticipating an increase in value for them. Yumiko
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Old 07-06-2007   #2
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Re: Factory GTA parts

Either they are being restored to factory specs or it's what I'm thinking, they don't want to fab up the AIR system/smog pump as well as try to find OEM style exhaust hangars, its way cheaper to pull it all as a unit and transplant then get it custom made.
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Old 07-06-2007   #3
gtayumiko
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Re: Factory GTA parts

Maybe perhaps that is why. But I just thought the other way because first they used to never do that. They would just leave everything and take the engine only. I remember seeing at least a half of dozen 3rd generation Pontiacs in their yard and the only thing missing would be the engine/transmission but all that other stuff was left behind. Same thing with differentials. I remember when someone took off a differentials, they would leave behind all the other stuff such as sway bars, torsion bar, and rear lower control arms. But now when someone takes the differentials, they take completely all that other stuff too. Now when I see one of these cars with the engine removed, nothing related to the exhaust is left behind on the car. Same with suspension components too. Secondly, the parts that are on shelves inside the building/warehouse are now all gone. I remember seeing a large shelf full of factory exhaust manifolds. Now those sell quickly and there are hardly one left. Yumiko
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Old 07-06-2007   #4
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Re: Factory GTA parts

Yeah, that to me, definitely sounds like the environmental police is cracking down on the older cars without the smog equipment. I know i'm going to have a hell of a time getting past smog patrol up here in Canada because of the lack of an AIR system on my firebird's engine...

Up here it's $380 per infraction.
So, no AIR system, $380
No emissions canister $380
No AIR cat, $380
No EGR, $380
No PCV, $380

It can add up reeeeeal quick
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Old 07-06-2007   #5
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GTA Year: 1991
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Re: Factory GTA parts

Thank God we dont have it in the county I live it.
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1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 07-08-2007   #6
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Re: Factory GTA parts

Yumiko,

You may well be right in your assumption. There are companies out there that specialize in classic car restoration and now that our cars are hitting the 20 year threshold it's very fair to assume that the parts you are referring to will be worth a lot to someone trying to do complete restorations. I for one have given up on the idea of keeping my GTA 100% original. Had I owned it from new, I would know it's true history and then maybe I could tell someone that the car is completely original. Without thorough documentation from the original date of purchase, I don't think anyone can honestly say their car is completely original. Even my vette with only 5k miles has had the battery replaced and a new water pump. Does that lower it's value? To the hard core enthusiast it may but take your car that has been completely done over with all original parts. You likely have one of the nicest GTA's out there but it's value would be much less because you have replaced so much. I am beginning to think that the "completely original" obsession is way over rated. I have decided to just enjoy my cars and they are worth what they are worth .... I don't really care anymore what the so called "experts" think. Anyway, you have made a good observation about the parts .... I guess only time will tell.

Darrell
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Old 07-08-2007   #7
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GTA Year: 1991
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Re: Factory GTA parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louvers
Yumiko,

You may well be right in your assumption. There are companies out there that specialize in classic car restoration and now that our cars are hitting the 20 year threshold it's very fair to assume that the parts you are referring to will be worth a lot to someone trying to do complete restorations. I for one have given up on the idea of keeping my GTA 100% original. Had I owned it from new, I would know it's true history and then maybe I could tell someone that the car is completely original. Without thorough documentation from the original date of purchase, I don't think anyone can honestly say their car is completely original. Even my vette with only 5k miles has had the battery replaced and a new water pump. Does that lower it's value? To the hard core enthusiast it may but take your car that has been completely done over with all original parts. You likely have one of the nicest GTA's out there but it's value would be much less because you have replaced so much. I am beginning to think that the "completely original" obsession is way over rated. I have decided to just enjoy my cars and they are worth what they are worth .... I don't really care anymore what the so called "experts" think. Anyway, you have made a good observation about the parts .... I guess only time will tell.

Darrell

...... and with that being said, I agree. As one can tell by the mlg on my car. Why have it if you are not going to enjoy it.
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1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 07-09-2007   #8
gtayumiko
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Re: Factory GTA parts

I am sure some guys notice when looking at ebay when they are attempting to sell their GTAs on there that they notice that cars that have all of the factory designed components sell at higher prices then the ones that have all of the aftermarket stuff on them. I myself have seen the GTAs with all of the factory components sell for more then a GTA that has been modified over the many years on e-bay.

One thing I would like to clarify is, I do not think it is necessarily "original" parts as it is "factory designed parts." Basically since I have replaced everything on my GTA, the stuff that I purchased from the GM Dealership recently and replaced on my GTA is no different in design then the stuff that I took off of my GTA to be replaced, example is rear suspension components such as the two bars that form an "X" right behind and slightly above the rear differentials. No difference what so ever between the old original ones and the brand new ones that I purchased at GM. I think the main issue here is getting the original designed components by GM. Yumiko
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Old 07-09-2007   #9
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Factory GTA parts

The only problem is finding an all original GTA.Most have been modded in one way or another. I recently had mine appraised but I did it in terms of loan value( b/c I feel thats more of a real world price), and I was told 10k and yes thats even with the amt of miles it has.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 07-09-2007   #10
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GTA Year: 1988
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Factory GTA parts

Darrell makes a good point. There are very few original GTAs out there anymore. Even when replacing parts with GM replacement parts, the "originality" is lost. Cars can only be original one time, and if you drive them at all they will not remain that way for long. But for collector value in the future, that is what a prospective buyer will want to see documented and will pay for.

My red GTA still sports its original equipment save for the exhaust and the battery, but it doesn't classify as "all original" anymore. But I'm going to enjoy it as much as I can; I'm not going to run the mileage up on it or anything, but screw the value of it. What's important is what it is worth to ME.

And that will always be more than it will be to anybody else....
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Old 07-10-2007   #11
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Factory GTA parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankieRider2
What's important is what it is worth to ME.

And that will always be more than it will be to anybody else....
I agree 100%!! and thats the way it should be. Its all about the fun factor.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 07-10-2007   #12
strc09
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GTA Year: 1988
GTA Engine: Custom
Re: Factory GTA parts

+2

However, do SLP parts consitute aftermarket since they are or were a GM performance option on some cars?
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Old 07-10-2007   #13
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Re: Factory GTA parts

If they came with the car from the dealer (not factory as some SLP parts were dealer installed options, and im pretty sure firehawks were sent to SLP for conversion like the T-roofs in some and the convertibles in others) Im sure it would classify as being original to that car as it rolled off the lot. But if you picked up a set of SLP runners in 99 and installed them on your 88, then definately no they aren't "original" in that context.
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Old 07-10-2007   #14
FrankieRider2
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GTA Year: 1988
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Factory GTA parts

I have to disagree with merc on this one, with no disrespect at all.... the car is original only when it remains as it was when it left the factory. Dealer-installed or available options are not original equipment no matter if the dealership installed them or if the owner did so in his or her own garage. The car did not leave the factory that way.

My Notchback still sports its original equipment except for the battery and floor mats.... by my judgement, it doesn't qualify. Of course, that's only one person's take on the subject. It's always open to one's own interpretation.
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Old 07-10-2007   #15
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Re: Factory GTA parts

Frankie~
Where does one draw the line on "original"? If we use your criteria there is a 99.99% probability no vehicle is original. Why? Do cars leave the factory with waxed paint, ArmorAll'd tires, and fabric-protected carpets? How many of our cars have their original oil, coolant, and brake fluids? The point is that cars that have all OEM parts in the configuration that left the factory for that specific vehicle and are properly maintained are considered originals.
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Old 07-10-2007   #16
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GTA Year: 1988
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Factory GTA parts

OK, I stand corrected.... and I didn't mean to come across as extreme as my comments appear now that I went back and took another look.

I definitely agree with the OEM replacement parts argument. Parts, etc. do wear out over time. That part I did not take into account before, but that's a good point. My red GTA doesn't have its original coolant anymore.... it got blown all over a local street here the third day I had the car when the radiator exploded. So I see where you're coming from there.

Then I'll revise my viewpoint to this instead: the car needs to be in its original configuration.... no mods inside or out.... to be classed as "original".

Just my $0.02....
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Old 07-11-2007   #17
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Re: Factory GTA parts

LOL .... everyone is correct here to a degree but it really does come down to how you view the term "completely original". I don't think that fluids really come in to play when considering the original condition of a car. Everyone knows that you have to change the fluids if for no other reason than just age alone. Changing out parts however is a much bigger deal. The real hardcore collectors want everything original as possible. A lot will go to the extreme of rebuilding a water pump or an altenator but keeping the original part intact is the key. A car that has all of it's original parts and equipment is going to be the highest value without a doubt. Now as for cars that have been kept in their original configuration, that's a strong plus as well. We all know that's it's much more expensive to keep original OEM replacements on our cars than just putting on a cheap reproduction part. Having said that, a lot of replacement parts that are so called "OEM" still are not the exact items as came with the car. I believe that our ECM units alone were upgraded at least twice so I have the lastest unit on my GTA but I kept the old just in case someone wanted it down the road.

So again, this question about completely original doesn't really apply to most of our cars because we all drive or have driven our cars enough that way too many parts have been changed out. My hats off to all of you that have kept the cars in the original configuration however because in my opinion that is definitely the best thing to do (from a collector stand point anyway) .... but as always ... just my .02 worth.

Darrell
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Old 07-11-2007   #18
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GTA Year: 1988
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Factory GTA parts

Exactly, Darrell.... original configuration is virtually impossible to duplicate unless you have a stash of NOS parts. For the most part, our cars are not old enough for that to be a viable proposition. GM is notorious for supplying "service replacement parts" that are not the same as originally installed; sometimes parts only a few years removed from new receive updates, revisions, etc. Plus, with our cars' ages now, so much of what was once available from GM is no longer in stock or reproduced.

Tires are also a good example; about as "original" as one can get is to have the same size and manufacturer on one's car. To find the OEM tires these days in usable condtion is like the proverbial saying about the "snowball in Hell".

So really about all you can do is to try and keep it as close as possible to the way it was when it was new.
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Old 07-11-2007   #19
gtayumiko
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Re: Factory GTA parts

Yes, if a GTA owner would decide to go the cheaper route and purchase all parts that wore out from those Pep Boys, AutoZone and places like that, if the entire car was maintained with replacement parts from those places, I would see that being a negative towards the GTAs value vs a car maintained with GM parts.

In the lifetime of my GTA, I would have to guess without looking at my records that I have purchased at least 12 alternators, the first one was in November 1991(I remember that first time.) Until recently, I would just go to those Pep Boy and AutoZone places and get one. The ones on our GTAs are sort of expensive and not a lot of parts places has them because of the high Amps ratings. But going to get them from the cheap parts stores such as the ones that I mentioned, the alternators that I would get would only last perhaps a year or two. Because the cheaper ones are made with cheaper materials. On the alternators, they use plastic bearing casings. You can see this on the rear or back side of the alternator. If you know about the 1987 GTA, the back of the alternator is only about an inch or so from the passenger side head. Now the heads get hot and the heat transfers to the back of the alternator. And it would always happen that the plastic bearing casing on the back of the alternator would get too hot and either break because of getting weak from the high heat or it would melt. At which point the bearings fall out and then the alternator malfunctions. So in my experiences, the aftermarket alternators fail from that problem the most. The last one to do that, I was driving about 80 mph on the freeway and all of a sudden I hear something screaming from the engine compartment and a lot of smoke coming out of the car. So I pull over and the alternator had frozen up. The plastic bearing casing had failed, the bearings came out, but one got lodged in there and froze the alternator. I then got an alternator from GM and the casing is metal and I no longer had that problem.

That is one of the differences between the cheaper parts and the more expensive ones from GM. You get what you pay for is my belief. Yumiko
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Old 07-11-2007   #20
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Factory GTA parts

Yes, but you can also get alot of that kind of stuff from AC Delco. If you go to ACDELCO.com you will see that there's alot of parts available from them the is also considered a GM part for example: Alt, A/C Compressors, and just about all of the electrical stuff is available from them Just go to your local AC Delco dealer and he can "HOOK" you up.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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