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Old 03-30-2007   #21
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARRYS91GTASLP
Summit is asking $400.00 for the TCI Breakaway. The Vigilante is about $800.00. Why the difference?

I don know why they are 2 different prices even though the Vigilante conv are supposed to be good so I have heard.
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1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 03-30-2007   #22
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARRYS91GTASLP
fearthisgta, could you post a link for the TCI Breakaway item you bought for yours? Thanks!
Here's the link...............

http://tciauto.com/Products/Converters/


I noticed you live in Marietta, correct?
I might be able to save you a call to Summit. Call the # below and ask for Wade.

770-422-1746 tell him Cliff told you to call.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 03-30-2007   #23
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by fearthisgta
Here's the link...............

http://tciauto.com/Products/Converters/


I noticed you live in Marietta, correct?
I might be able to save you a call to Summit. Call the # below and ask for Wade.

770-422-1746 tell him Cliff told you to call.
Great! Please click this link the part numbers:
http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Conv...plications.asp

There's a chart for GM 700R4's, showing two(2) part numbers. It also says that one of the items is a 12" diameter converter.

Which one should I consider for my 1991 GTA? Thanks!
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Old 03-30-2007   #24
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

See the footnotes that apply to the two(2) Breakaway part numbers.
Which Breakaway did you buy for your 1991?

Footnotes:

Part Number 242800 footnotes 2,8

2 Functional lock-up torque converter only for lock-up transmissions.
8 12" diameter converter.

Part number 242962 footnotes 3,9

3 With heavy duty front anti-ballooning plate for nitrous applications.
9 Non Lock-up (Ford AOD applications MUST use TCI 439600 input shaft)
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Old 03-30-2007   #25
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

You need the 242800.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 03-30-2007   #26
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by fearthisgta
You need the 242800.
Thanks to everyone who assisted me!! I hope I can contribute as well in the future.
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Old 03-30-2007   #27
MunsonGTA
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

you have a double adjustable panhard bar then if it screws in on both sides. the best converters out there are EDGE, Vigilante, and Yank. a 2500 stall would be great for your car. Also one thing to consider, the smaller (physical size) the converter the better. The smaller the converter, the longer your tranny will usually live, and you also have less weight. the less weight means less rotational mass also. Most of the converters made by the 3 companies i listed are 10 inch or 9 inch. Most others by other companies are 11 or 12 inch.
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87 GTA: Forged 408 LSX short block, TEA stage 2 cnc ported 243 heads, BTR Stage 3 stroker cam, Fast 102 intake, NW 102 TB, Longtube headers, custom 411 ECM, custom harness, custom tuned, Performabuilt stage 2 4l60E with PTC 2800 stall, 9 bolt rear with 3.70 gears and TAP girdle.

11.16 at 123 mph.
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Old 03-30-2007   #28
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunsonGTA
you have a double adjustable panhard bar then if it screws in on both sides. the best converters out there are EDGE, Vigilante, and Yank. a 2500 stall would be great for your car. Also one thing to consider, the smaller (physical size) the converter the better. The smaller the converter, the longer your tranny will usually live, and you also have less weight. the less weight means less rotational mass also. Most of the converters made by the 3 companies i listed are 10 inch or 9 inch. Most others by other companies are 11 or 12 inch.
Thanks Munson! In regards to the double adjustable panhard bar: Could someone explain how to adjust the rear-end offset if the body is too far to the LEFT of center? Say we use a drive up lift, I'm assuming that I would EXTEND the length of the panhard bar since the RIGHT end is attached to the BODY and the LEFT end is attached to the AXLE. Which end of the panhard bar would I use with the wrench?

Thanks again!
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Old 03-31-2007   #29
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunsonGTA
you have a double adjustable panhard bar then if it screws in on both sides. the best converters out there are EDGE, Vigilante, and Yank. a 2500 stall would be great for your car. Also one thing to consider, the smaller (physical size) the converter the better. The smaller the converter, the longer your tranny will usually live, and you also have less weight. the less weight means less rotational mass also. Most of the converters made by the 3 companies i listed are 10 inch or 9 inch. Most others by other companies are 11 or 12 inch.
Munson, which Vigilante Precision torque converter do you recommend? The single disk is expensive enough without going to the 3 disk. This link http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...id=297&pcid=73 at Thunder racing shows the following:

Vigilante 9.5" Single Disk Lock-up Torque Converter, 200R4, 700R4/4L60E, 4L80E

Is that what I would consider? Fearthis (Cliff) recommends the TCI Breakaway. I appreciate all comments!
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Old 03-31-2007   #30
MunsonGTA
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GTA Year: 1987
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

for your car a TCI would be fine. if you want something serious, go with a vigilante. they have less weight, higher strength ratings, and higher torque multiplication factors to them. the single disk vigilante with a 2600 stall would be great, the 3 disk would be ideal. it really depends on how much money you want to spend. want something good? get the TCI. want something great? get the vigilante.

https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/cust...&cat=60&page=1
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87 GTA: Forged 408 LSX short block, TEA stage 2 cnc ported 243 heads, BTR Stage 3 stroker cam, Fast 102 intake, NW 102 TB, Longtube headers, custom 411 ECM, custom harness, custom tuned, Performabuilt stage 2 4l60E with PTC 2800 stall, 9 bolt rear with 3.70 gears and TAP girdle.

11.16 at 123 mph.
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Old 03-31-2007   #31
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARRYS91GTASLP
Munson, which Vigilante Precision torque converter do you recommend? The single disk is expensive enough without going to the 3 disk. This link http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...id=297&pcid=73 at Thunder racing shows the following:

Vigilante 9.5" Single Disk Lock-up Torque Converter, 200R4, 700R4/4L60E, 4L80E

Is that what I would consider? Fearthis (Cliff) recommends the TCI Breakaway. I appreciate all comments!
I checked and noticed that Precision creates their Vigilante torque converters from scratch, whereas TCI uses used cores for the Breakaway....
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Old 03-31-2007   #32
MunsonGTA
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GTA Year: 1987
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARRYS91GTASLP
Thanks Munson! In regards to the double adjustable panhard bar: Could someone explain how to adjust the rear-end offset if the body is too far to the LEFT of center? Say we use a drive up lift, I'm assuming that I would EXTEND the length of the panhard bar since the RIGHT end is attached to the BODY and the LEFT end is attached to the AXLE. Which end of the panhard bar would I use with the wrench?

Thanks again!
unless you have one of the "on car" adjustable panhard bars, you'll have to drop atleast one side of the panhard bar. if i were going to do it myself, i'd try to adjust both sides equal. i wouldn't want the end threaded way out on one side or the other. i use a stardard non adjustable panhard bar, so i can't really recommend on how to adjust it. but just by thinking about what you are describing, i'd say that to move the axle, you would have to screw out the axle side as you mentioned and that would put it back under the center of the car.

maybe somebody else would have some better input on this, i've never adjusted one. look at these panhard bars and see which type you have. i'm guessing you have the one in the last picture. the first picture shows an "on car" adjustable panhard bar.

http://spohn.net/productimages/ACF167C.JPG
http://spohn.net/productimages/106_big.JPG
http://spohn.net/productimages/103_big.jpg
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87 GTA: Forged 408 LSX short block, TEA stage 2 cnc ported 243 heads, BTR Stage 3 stroker cam, Fast 102 intake, NW 102 TB, Longtube headers, custom 411 ECM, custom harness, custom tuned, Performabuilt stage 2 4l60E with PTC 2800 stall, 9 bolt rear with 3.70 gears and TAP girdle.

11.16 at 123 mph.
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Old 03-31-2007   #33
MunsonGTA
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GTA Year: 1987
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARRYS91GTASLP
I checked and noticed that Precision creates their Vigilante torque converters from scratch, whereas TCI uses used cores for the Breakaway....
here are websites for the other 2 top companies. i know 2 local guys running EDGE converters and they absolutely love them.

http://www.converter.cc/
http://www.edgeracingconverters.com/
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87 GTA: Forged 408 LSX short block, TEA stage 2 cnc ported 243 heads, BTR Stage 3 stroker cam, Fast 102 intake, NW 102 TB, Longtube headers, custom 411 ECM, custom harness, custom tuned, Performabuilt stage 2 4l60E with PTC 2800 stall, 9 bolt rear with 3.70 gears and TAP girdle.

11.16 at 123 mph.
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Old 03-31-2007   #34
Fred91GTA
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

I use the Vigilante 2600 stall in my GTA and it's amazing how much of a difference it made. I hardly know it's there until I ram the pedal through the firewall. Honestly, you get what you pay for. I went with the more expensive Vigilante because they had nothing but great reviews.

Oh and get yourself a tranny cooler if it doesn't have one already.
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Old 03-31-2007   #35
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunsonGTA
unless you have one of the "on car" adjustable panhard bars, you'll have to drop atleast one side of the panhard bar. if i were going to do it myself, i'd try to adjust both sides equal. i wouldn't want the end threaded way out on one side or the other. i use a stardard non adjustable panhard bar, so i can't really recommend on how to adjust it. but just by thinking about what you are describing, i'd say that to move the axle, you would have to screw out the axle side as you mentioned and that would put it back under the center of the car.

maybe somebody else would have some better input on this, i've never adjusted one. look at these panhard bars and see which type you have. i'm guessing you have the one in the last picture. the first picture shows an "on car" adjustable panhard bar.

http://spohn.net/productimages/ACF167C.JPG
http://spohn.net/productimages/106_big.JPG
http://spohn.net/productimages/103_big.jpg
I have one like this, except that there are threads inside each attachment point that adjust the length:
<img src=http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l268/ukharry/ACF166F.jpg />

Munson, you said

"but just by thinking about what you are describing, i'd say that to move the axle, you would have to screw out the axle side as you mentioned and that would put it back under the center of the car."

Well, just by coincidence the only end that has clearance for a wrench is the LEFT(AXEL END) of the bar. Good catch! Thanks!
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Last edited by HARRYS91GTASLP; 03-31-2007 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 03-31-2007   #36
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Smile Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred91GTA
Oh and get yourself a tranny cooler if it doesn't have one already.
Gawd Fred!! I'm going to go broke at this rate!
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Old 03-31-2007   #37
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Oh well... I just remembered; I have Control Arms, and I would have to break the welds on their existing mounting brackets and weld them into new positions on the axle after adjusting the offset....

I will have to accept the slight offset, and go with the solution that will address the real cause of the vibration when downshifting in all gears, and that is to assume that the Torque Converter is toast. I will get my transmission guy test drive the car to validate our theory.

Thanks for all the help everyone! Look forward to meeting-up with you guys someday, perhaps at a meet and greet car show. Keep me informed if one is scheduled anywhere in Georgia. The beer's on me!
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Old 03-31-2007   #38
Fred91GTA
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARRYS91GTASLP
Gawd Fred!! I'm going to go broke at this rate!
A good tranny cooler is only like $50 depending on what you get. Maybe even less. Check to see if the previous owner put one in. With an aftermarket stall, it is NEEDED. Otherwise you burn up your tranny faster.
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Old 03-31-2007   #39
MunsonGTA
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GTA Year: 1987
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARRYS91GTASLP
Oh well... I just remembered; I have Control Arms, and I would have to break the welds on their existing mounting brackets and weld them into new positions on the axle after adjusting the offset....

I will have to accept the slight offset, and go with the solution that will address the real cause of the vibration when downshifting in all gears, and that is to assume that the Torque Converter is toast. I will get my transmission guy test drive the car to validate our theory.

Thanks for all the help everyone! Look forward to meeting-up with you guys someday, perhaps at a meet and greet car show. Keep me informed if one is scheduled anywhere in Georgia. The beer's on me!
you have a double adjustable torque arm with poly bushings on both ends. that picture from the spohn website is double adjustable but it has spherical rod ends on both ends instead. can you tell if anybody has already moved the LCA brackets on the axle side? i've never heard of anybody having to move LCA brackets from adjusting a panhard bar.
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87 GTA: Forged 408 LSX short block, TEA stage 2 cnc ported 243 heads, BTR Stage 3 stroker cam, Fast 102 intake, NW 102 TB, Longtube headers, custom 411 ECM, custom harness, custom tuned, Performabuilt stage 2 4l60E with PTC 2800 stall, 9 bolt rear with 3.70 gears and TAP girdle.

11.16 at 123 mph.
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Old 03-31-2007   #40
MunsonGTA
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GTA Year: 1987
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Re: Bad vibration when down shifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred91GTA
A good tranny cooler is only like $50 depending on what you get. Maybe even less. Check to see if the previous owner put one in. With an aftermarket stall, it is NEEDED. Otherwise you burn up your tranny faster.
fred is totally correct on this. it's alot cheaper to buy a $50 tranny cooler then to buy a whole new tranny. i put one on my car but i think i went too big, the car runs alot hotter now. I believe i only paid about 80 for mine, but it's pretty big, and a name brand. the first one i had was from summit, it was summit brand and only 30 bucks. and also make sure you don't get one that is setup for AN fittings, i did that the first time on accident.
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87 GTA: Forged 408 LSX short block, TEA stage 2 cnc ported 243 heads, BTR Stage 3 stroker cam, Fast 102 intake, NW 102 TB, Longtube headers, custom 411 ECM, custom harness, custom tuned, Performabuilt stage 2 4l60E with PTC 2800 stall, 9 bolt rear with 3.70 gears and TAP girdle.

11.16 at 123 mph.
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