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Old 11-14-2005   #1
Fred91GTA
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1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

Does anybody know where I can get more information on the 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype that GM made? It was a blue hardtop... tested around the same time as the Firefox. I'm sure some of you guys have seen pics of it floating around the net. Thanks.
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Old 11-15-2005   #2
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

I drove this car back in 1993 or 94 from the then Race Rock Motor City Dinner back to Auburn Hills & Pontiac HQ late one night with a Pontiac PR guys.. it was then the fastest machine I'd ever experienced.. more-so monstrous acceleration that, even with the freeway pretty empty.. I could not even start to strain the thing. It felt more like a stock car then a street car due to suspension mods.
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Old 11-15-2005   #3
nblanchard
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

I know they did one back in 1988.. I have the "Pontiac High Performance" magazine withthat article... did 500 horse and 500 torque... didn't have any details on the setup though... what kind of information are you looking for?
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Old 11-15-2005   #4
Fred91GTA
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

Well, I'm looking for technical information really... like what kind of turbos did it run, what type of manifolds, the compression ratio, the types of mods the car had to the chassis... etc. etc. etc. DMCPONT, you think you can answer any of these questions since you've driven it first hand? I'm really more interested in how they re-inforced the chassis. And what kind of tranny did it have? Did they swap a ZF into there too?

Also, some pics would be nice... that is one beautiful bird. The best part is, it looks stock from the outside with the exception of the BBS wheels.
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Old 11-15-2005   #5
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

What type of tranny..??.. f rom memory it was auto, and further think it was probably 6 speed or at least 5 min..but 6 is more the case. Suspension was rock hard. Its was plated as a MFG plate car. Something Nblanchard just said also sparks a memory too.. that one of the turbo cars or the in fact only one.. was infact a later 80 F body.. that was given a face lift to the 91-92 nose.
John Sawruk, the Detroit based ex GM official Pontiac historian is one of the few people to know alot more. Unfortunately John is not well at the moment either - seriously... so if you pray occasionally.. give him a mention.. he has done more to maintain both the physical cars & document Pontiac history than anyone on earth.
... but more then that its too many years gone by Fred...
I do have a picture of it from that time....in a group of 3rd fen Fbd TA.s here in "kodak slide form". I'll see if its possble to digitise it. Theres also an interesting car in the background on one of the slides.... its a '84 Red Firebird.. built in Van Nuys but for whatever reason.. laid unclaimed/skipped for about 4-5 years, & was destined for the crusher till rescued which started the then unofficial Pontiac Historical Collection.. which was hidden in a heated walled compound INSIDE one of the large ex assembly plants in MI. More then that I'd better not say....but there were probably 60 cars in there.. some of which we see at shows today... others not.

Last edited by DMCPONT; 11-15-2005 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 11-15-2005   #6
DMCPONT
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

.. info back in .. indicates from a highly regarded GM source in Detroit today... as follows. ... I hope this helps.
DMC

"The '91 Trans Am that you refer to still exists. It is called the "Twin Turbo".
It was built from a production Quasar Blue '91 Trans Am and is one of my all-time favorite Pontiac Engineering cars. It won the 1991 Manufacturers Shoot-Out and ran 191 mph on a closed course.

There was a second vehicle that was similar in appearance, called the "Firefox". It started as a Green '91 Trans Am, with similar chassis and body modifications, but had a more streetable engine. This car was scrapped about five years ago."
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Old 11-15-2005   #7
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

The blue twin turbo T/A still exists... there is a new photo of it in the new HPP this month taken at the latest POCI show. I was not as lucky as Dave... I only had the chance to ride around Road Atlanta in that car back in '98 with Jim Mattison. I declined because my wife did not want to pilot the GTA around the course by herself.... AARRGGHH!

The '91 blue car ran the twin-turbo 5.7L engine, had the ZF 6-speed, and a full IRS taken from a Corvette and modified to fit the 3rdGen chassis. JM told me the car put about 675-700 hp to the ground. He said he had driven it to his home several times and got really interesting looks from his neighbors....

The '91 TTTA

The green '91 car was actually called the Firefox II. The original Firefox was based on a 1988 GTA; I have a hard time believing that GM would spend the money to change over the car to the later body style when the time came. So far as I reckon, they were different cars. In no way meaning to dispute Dave's word, but I've never seen anything that purported otherwise.
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Old 11-15-2005   #8
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

"I have a hard time believing that GM would spend the money to change over the car to the later body style when the time came.".. thats quite possible too Frank.. I'm going back 14-16 years and getting old too...
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Old 11-15-2005   #9
Fred91GTA
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

Hey thanks a lot guys. You've been great help. I gotta go run out and get that issue of HPP now. Frankie, you wouldn't happen to remember what turbos it ran would you?
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Old 11-15-2005   #10
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

I have never seen a road test or any kind of report on the twin turbo T/A in print, but there are reports on both the Firefox and the Firefox II on The Source Page in the Road Tests section. This quote below was lifted directly from the 1991 test....

"The original Firefox surfaced three years ago with insidiuous black paint, fat footwear, and plenty of horsepower. Son of FF was built off-campus by TDM Technologies of Livonia, Michigan, an automotive engineering support firm. It wears jade green paint over standard '91 sheetmetal with a number of interesting alterations from production specifications embodied within."

The original Firefox was done by PAS for Pontiac.

The stories are in the 1988 and 1991 listings of the Road Tests section. The 1991 car is discussed in detail, but the 1988 original Firefox is not. Well, not enough for most of us anyway....
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Old 11-15-2005   #11
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GTA Year: 1988
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

Fred, here's the new pic for you.... click it for the large image.



By all means get the issue.... the story of a 398-point 1970 1/2 RA-IV T/A is enough to warrant the purchase price. But be forewarned..... you'll be drooling a LOT.
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Old 11-15-2005   #12
Fred91GTA
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankieRider2
Fred, here's the new pic for you.... click it for the large image.



By all means get the issue.... the story of a 398-point 1970 1/2 RA-IV T/A is enough to warrant the purchase price. But be forewarned..... you'll be drooling a LOT.
Thanks Frankie! I love that car. If I ever find a blue T/A that's going to be my next project. Does anybody know if this thing had a rollcage? I figure it would have if it put out that much power.

Looks like it used a TPI setup too...
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Last edited by Fred91GTA; 11-15-2005 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 11-15-2005   #13
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

As I recall, in 1998 it did have a roll bar on the inside, but not a full cage.
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Old 11-16-2005   #14
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GTA Year: 1991
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

Here's a pic.......

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Old 11-16-2005   #15
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

that's one sweet car, the plenum doesn't really look like a tpi plenum though... wish we had more info on the car.
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Old 11-16-2005   #16
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GTA Year: 1991
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

Yeah, it would be nice, or even a closer pic of the engine.
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Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 11-16-2005   #17
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Unhappy Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMCPONT
There was a second vehicle that was similar in appearance, called the "Firefox". It started as a Green '91 Trans Am, with similar chassis and body modifications, but had a more streetable engine. This car was scrapped about five years ago."

Such a sad day... I wish GM wouldn't scrap one-of-a-kind cars like that.
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Old 11-16-2005   #18
Fred91GTA
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

Quote:
Originally Posted by strc09
Such a sad day... I wish GM wouldn't scrap one-of-a-kind cars like that.

Well, GM is a company that's well known for making many stupid decisions. The killing of the Impala SS (the 90s version with the LT1) is one example. Making the Hummer line is yet another example of their stupidity.

The plenum looks like a single downdraft plenum not unlike the Super Ram. From the looks of the turbos, I'd say they're from the T4 family. I'd love to find out how they came up with the fuel management calibration for that sucker.
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Old 11-17-2005   #19
nblanchard
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

As per http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=29 someone posted this in another section in the GTA forum... this should answer most of your questions Fred.

Quote:
Pontiac "Firefox II" Trans Am prototype (1991) (The Firefox II, based on a 1991 Trans Am was built by Pontiac in conjunction with TDM Technologies. TDM is an automotive engineering support firm based in Livonia, Michigan. This incarnation of the original Firefox differs from the original in several areas. The Firefox was powered by a beefed up Tuned Port Injected 5.7 liter with aluminum heads and a bumped up compression ratio of 10.5:1. The Firefox was also given several tried and true TPI modifications. The Firefox had provisions for a catalytic convertor but this prototype was not so equipped. Horsepower levels were an impressive 328 hp at 4500 rpm and a stump pulling 395 lbs of torque at 3500 rpm. It is needless to say that these levels of performance would decimate stock driveline pieces. As was the case with the original Firefox, the shifting duties were handled by a Corvette ZF six speed tranny with power being channeled to a limited slip rear with 3.91 gears. Residing in the rear of Firefox II is a suspension that F-body owners have wanted for the last 10 years, an independent rear suspension. This all aluminum independent rear suspension required the fuel tank to be removed and replaced with a small fuel cell fitted in the luggage compartment. It also required a compact muffler mounted snuggly behind the IRS assembly. The IRS was apparently considered for the 1989 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am and the original Firefox but has never made it on a production F-body due to cost and complexity. The rolling stock was also upgrade to handle the increased performance. The Firefox II rode on sticky 275/40/17 Goodyear
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Old 11-22-2005   #20
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Re: 1992 Twin Turbo Trans Am Prototype

That was a very bad machine. It would have been sweet if it had actually made production. Unfortunately I'd never would have been able to afford one new...much less used.
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