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Old 10-18-2005   #41
nblanchard
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Re: engine pings

Well.. the reason I left out 1987 TPI's, is because I was 100% positive.... but I've heard the 87's having the "coil in cap" design, which may indicate a vacuum advance on those models.
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Old 10-18-2005   #42
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Re: engine pings

I have also heard that the ESC module for the 350's were different than the 305's, may also be worth checking.
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Old 10-18-2005   #43
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Re: engine pings

give the dealer a call and ask if the PN is the same or not... simple solution there
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Old 10-19-2005   #44
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Re: engine pings

Quote:
Originally Posted by nblanchard
Well.. the reason I left out 1987 TPI's, is because I was 100% positive.... but I've heard the 87's having the "coil in cap" design, which may indicate a vacuum advance on those models.
According to the shop manual, my 1987 has no vacuum or mechanical control over timing advance. It's all EST (Electronic Spark Timing).
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Old 10-19-2005   #45
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Re: engine pings

do you have the remotely located ignition coil?
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Old 10-19-2005   #46
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Re: engine pings

It's honestly been 10 years since I last saw my distributor (!) but from what I recall, it was the integral type. Wasn't it in 1988 or 1989 that they changed to the remote type?

Shop manual seems to imply an integral coil in cap as well.
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Old 10-19-2005   #47
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Re: engine pings

Oh.. and still electronically controlled advance... interesting
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Old 10-19-2005   #48
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Re: engine pings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klortho
I have also heard that the ESC module for the 350's were different than the 305's, may also be worth checking.
The ESC modules are different for a 350. The knock sensor is different as well. I have a 350 knock sensor, but I did not change out the ESC (it is $75-80). I spoke with Hypertech and they stated that it did not make a difference which ESC I used. No idea as to what the difference would be.
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Old 10-19-2005   #49
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Re: engine pings

I believe I have an ESC from an '87. It was still attached to the relay cluster by the brake booster on my GTA when I got it. I have no use for it since I'm putting an LT1 in it. If you want to try it, I can send it to you, if it's the right thing
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Old 10-19-2005   #50
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GTA Year: 1987
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Re: engine pings

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleTransAm
It's honestly been 10 years since I last saw my distributor (!) but from what I recall, it was the integral type. Wasn't it in 1988 or 1989 that they changed to the remote type?

Shop manual seems to imply an integral coil in cap as well.
my 87 GTA has remote coil, 350 automatic car
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Old 10-19-2005   #51
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Re: engine pings

I stand corrected. I have no idea why my manual indicates an integral coil, unless they are referring to something else?? Anyway, I tracked down a photo of my engine bay that pretty much shows the coil sitting on the passenger's side of the distributor near the tranny dipstick. (I know, why not just go into my garage and see if for myself? It's late and the house alarm is activated and kids are asleep, so this is a much quieter way to do it!).

Funny how hard it was to find a photo of the rear passenger's side of my engine compartment. Tons of photos from the driver's side, and even some close-ups of the rear driver's side of the engine bay, but none of the other rear side. Must be something psychological...
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Old 10-23-2005   #52
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Re: engine pings

At the bottom of the this page, you'll see comparison shots of the two distributors and their applications.

http://classictrucks.com/tech/0402cl_tpi/
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Old 10-23-2005   #53
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Re: engine pings

I noticed something there.. the truck distributors have a built-in rev limiter... anyway we can swap our module out with a truck module to take advantage of the rev limiter?
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325.8ft-lbs @ 3250rpm (at the wheels)
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Old 10-28-2005   #54
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Smile Re: engine pings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klortho
I believe I have an ESC from an '87. It was still attached to the relay cluster by the brake booster on my GTA when I got it. I have no use for it since I'm putting an LT1 in it. If you want to try it, I can send it to you, if it's the right thing
Update. With the onset of the cold weather, the pinging is almost completely gone. Guess this should be a clue. Car is just about ready for winter storage, never been out in the snow and not going to start that now. I have a couple of things to do over the winter and I think I will switch to a 180 thermostat. The Hypertech chip is burned for a 195 thermostat ( at least that is the info I provided to them) so I dont quite understand why the cooler weather has this much of an effect. Anyway, thanks to everyone who provided help. Maybe I will try a new custom chip, set for 87 octane and a 195 thermostat, engine has 9:1 compression ratio. Keep warm, thanks, George.
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Old 10-28-2005   #55
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Re: engine pings

wow... maybe a coolant temp sender? I'm at a loss now... i think its time to take it to the dealer and have them throw the scanner on it while they tak eit for a drive
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Best Track Time is 14.396 @ 95.71MPH

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325.8ft-lbs @ 3250rpm (at the wheels)
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Old 10-28-2005   #56
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Re: engine pings

Quote:
Originally Posted by nblanchard
wow... maybe a coolant temp sender? I'm at a loss now... i think its time to take it to the dealer and have them throw the scanner on it while they tak eit for a drive
Coolant temp sensor is new. Not sure what the dealer could tell me, I have my own scanner and did not see anything out of the ordinary. Besides they really do not want to get involved with modified cars. I am really starting to lean towards a defective chip from Hypertech. I was told that the car wouldnt run with the original 305 chip ( again Hypertech) , but I saved the original chip and I think it would be a good idea to swap it back in.
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Old 10-28-2005   #57
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Re: engine pings

oh yeah... for sure... do that man... it takes, what, 10 minutes max to swap it out?
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Best Track Time is 14.396 @ 95.71MPH

225.5hp @ 4250rpm (at the wheels)
325.8ft-lbs @ 3250rpm (at the wheels)
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Old 11-05-2005   #58
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Re: engine pings

Quote:
Originally Posted by nblanchard
oh yeah... for sure... do that man... it takes, what, 10 minutes max to swap it out?
Well, today was a really nice day around here, 70 degrees,dry and sunny. Swapped in the original chip. Car started, idled poorly. It would stall when I put it in gear until it warmed up, was idling around 400-500 rpm in gear, barely running. Took it for a ride so the chip/pcm could learn the engine. No real improvement in idling, pinging was terrible. It was so bad that I pulled in to a parking lot and put the Hypertech custom chip back in. I know the knock sensor circuit works, tap the exhaust manifold with a hammer and you can see the timing retard, but it doesnt seem to do anything to correct the pinging. I did some research and the newer GM crate 350's specify maximum total timing at 32 degrees advance. This chip is giving me as much as 38 degrees advance. Sent a note to GM and they basically blew me off, they said to contact a GM Performance Parts dealer for info. I sent an email to Pace Performance ( where I purchased the engine) waiting to see if they can offer any advice. Really starting to think the chip is too aggressive for this engine and the 93 octane fuel that has 10% ethanol, isnt helping either. Almost glad that winter is coming and the car will be put in storage, leaving this headache for the spring.
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Old 11-07-2005   #59
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Re: engine pings

Quote:
Originally Posted by george88gta
Well, today was a really nice day around here, 70 degrees,dry and sunny. Swapped in the original chip. Car started, idled poorly. It would stall when I put it in gear until it warmed up, was idling around 400-500 rpm in gear, barely running. Took it for a ride so the chip/pcm could learn the engine. No real improvement in idling, pinging was terrible. It was so bad that I pulled in to a parking lot and put the Hypertech custom chip back in. I know the knock sensor circuit works, tap the exhaust manifold with a hammer and you can see the timing retard, but it doesnt seem to do anything to correct the pinging. I did some research and the newer GM crate 350's specify maximum total timing at 32 degrees advance. This chip is giving me as much as 38 degrees advance. Sent a note to GM and they basically blew me off, they said to contact a GM Performance Parts dealer for info. I sent an email to Pace Performance ( where I purchased the engine) waiting to see if they can offer any advice. Really starting to think the chip is too aggressive for this engine and the 93 octane fuel that has 10% ethanol, isnt helping either. Almost glad that winter is coming and the car will be put in storage, leaving this headache for the spring.
Recieved a response from Pace. They feel that the 38 degrees is not too much advance for this engine. Basically all they could suggest was to take out some of the initial timing and maybe try a colder spark plug and to bump up the fuel pressure. One thing they said to try was to remove the vacumn line from the EGR valve. I tried this and the pinging was almost gone, but the outside air temp was in the 50's around here so I am not sure which had more of an effect. Surprisingly, with the vacumn line disconnected, I did not get a "check engine" light. Have to hook up the scanner to see if it thinks the EGR is working correctly. Wonder if Hypertec disabled the EGR error? Anyone know if running with the EGR vacumn line disconnected will have a negative effect on the engine? I plan to run this way for a while to see if the pinging comes back on a warmer day.
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Old 11-07-2005   #60
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Re: engine pings

colder plugs... didn't I suggest that earlier in the thread? hmmmm
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Best Track Time is 14.396 @ 95.71MPH

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325.8ft-lbs @ 3250rpm (at the wheels)
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