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GTA DOCUMENTATION/RESEARCH Want to ask about your GTA's documentation, build codes, or other historical data? Then post it HERE!

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Old 06-24-2002   #1
pgh-gta
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ASC Convertible conversions

Hello to all of those people who do have pre '91 f-body convertibles. In another post about '88 and '89 convertibles it became a very hot topic between 3 certain posters(including myself) that ASC conversion convertibles were not factory authorized. I am here to update the board that they most certainly were.

Last wednesday, I began many phone conversations with ASC, thanks to a new member to the board(Hammerton). He really has his act together when it comes to digging up info for research of vehicles. He put me in touch with ASC in Detroit and they were very helpful in my quest for knowlege. At this time they are going through 15 years worth of hand written order information to locate some kind of order code. I was able to supply them with my order #, and my dealer code #, and the date of the original order of my '87 GTA vert. They said it would take some time but something should be found.

As far as the evidence goes, ASC states(not claims), that their affiliation with GM regarding this conversion was and is the same as their affiliation with all car manufacturers regarding aftermarket work. This was a GM conversion only, you could not send any vehicle, even a GM f-body you purchased previously and take it to ASC to be converted. You could only recieve this option when ordering the car through the factory. As a matter of fact, I cannot even order a part for convertible top through ASC if something is broken. I was told I need to go through the dealer. This to me is very conclusive evidence that this option is most definately a GM authorized option and to all of the naysayers that still do not believe this. I suggest you contact ASC yourself and ask the same questions I have.

Thanks again Hammerton, for the FYI on the # for ASC and hopefully I can get the actual order code they used. If not I was told I can get a certified letter to back up this info that I received. Thanks again. Joe
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Old 06-24-2002   #2
pgh-gta
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I'm sorry, but as a quick follow up I forgot to address another one of the issues that was at hand. All warranty work on this option was handled at the dealership. Work was not sent out or authorized or paid for by ASC. This was also confirmed by ASC. Thanks again.
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Old 08-10-2002   #3
VJHATCH1
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88 convertible

I have an 88 gta convertible, i can e you a picture.
I just emailed asc for information about my/other cars.
I am missing the spi label, we've owned this car twice and I dont know what happened to the label. Had no idea there was so much information out there on these cars.
vickie
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Old 08-14-2002   #4
pgh-gta
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When you say you have owned it twice, are you the original owner? If so, I have alot of questions for you. They are a very limited run of vehicles in comparison to the Camaros. If I were you I wouldn't let it go again. If you would like to email a pic respond to this post with your email and I will send you mine. Also, where in Ohio are you located? There is a place about an hour from here, east of Pittsburgh that has a firebird meeting place a couple times a month. I have been invited to bring my car out but haven't cause it's been so hot. Maybe in the fall. If you aren't too far away it would be cool to have 2 verts there since most people haven't even seen one before. Also, do you by chance have the original window sticker or the build sheet or anything that denotes an RPO code for the convertible conversion. I also do have all the ASC conversion breakdowns by number for the Camaro and Firebird if you are interested. Thanks Joe
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Old 08-15-2002   #5
VJHATCH1
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HEY JOE.
ACTUALLY, MY BOYFRIEND BRIAN OWNS THE CAR, HE HAS OWNED IT TWICE, I DIDNT REALLY GET INTO THOSE DETAILS. MY EMAIL IS VJHATCH1@AOL.COM
E ME AND I'D BE HAPPY TO SEND PHOTOS.
WE ARE LOOKING TO SELL IT, HE DOESNT WANT TO, MAY EVEN SELL THE HARLEY INSTEAD, BUT HE WANTS TO BUY A HOUSE AND RAISE FAST CASH. AND AT THAT TIME I COULD HOOK YOU UP WITH HIS CELL # IF YOU WANT TO TALK TO HIM.
THANKS VICKIE
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Old 08-16-2002   #6
pgh-gta
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Sorry to hear you might sell it but this may help. On the website nadaguides.com the '87 camaro convertible retails out in their classic section at 16100. There were 955 vert camaros built versus 173 trans-am(all of them firebirds, gta's, etc.) So this makes me happy since mine is an '87 GTA vert. Now for the '88's. They don't list in the classic section, but I'm sure you can still get a value. Look up the camaro and not the firebird. Firebirds were not that prevolent so it doesn't list them. In '88 there were 4605 camaro verts made and only 104 firebird verts. So when you price the car, do it wisely, don't just give it away. In case you are hungry for more numbers. In '89 there were 6473 camaro verts and 330 firebird verts. In '90 there were 5394 camaro verts and it is not known for the firebird. These numbers are directly from Rod Edie at ASC. He was associated with the GM ASC conversion back in this time frame. Hope this can help in pricing out your ride. Good luck. Joe
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Old 08-16-2002   #7
VJHATCH1
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Smile

THANK YOU JOE, I APPRECIATE ALL THOSE NUMBERS AND INFORMATION. HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND, VICKIE
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Old 10-30-2002   #8
Chick Walter
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'89 GTA ASC Convertible, 5.7L

New to forum... seeking other ASC convertible owners since coming online. Own an '89 GTA 5.7L convertible... bought used in Dec. 1991, but have dealer sheet on it from local Pontiac dealer. Also have photocopy of the ASC promotional brochure. I did some research when I first bought it through phone calls to ASC, through two fellows who bought Formula 5.7Ls new, and from some magazine articles. I will go back later to the notebook I assembled trying to understand and document the conversion. Meanwhile, the gist of what I learned is as follows...
ASC tried unsuccessfully to sell the conversion to Pontiac around 1987. Though Pontiac said no, ASC owned a Pontiac dealreship in Livonia, Michigan and simply ordered the cars through that dealership for conversion. A few 87s were made. I was told about 338 88s and 89s were made. An ASC employee gave me a guestimate that perhaps one-fourth of those made were GTAs. My GTA convertible was one of 3 ordered and sold by Steve Smith Pontiac in Fairfax, Virginia. An ASC employee told me that they ran into some sort of contract issues with GM and stopped making them after 1989, so I was surporised to read about the 1990s on this site. I have a photocopy listing of the VIN numbers for a portion of the 89s sold, along with the dealers that sold them--this was sent to me by one of the Formula owners. Of interest is that one or two V6 pace car convertibles were made also. I have photo from a Turbo magaznie article I believe. ASC sent me the '89 Camaro conversion literature on one recall. However, there are several recalls on the 89 Camaro that my dealer printed for me--they apply equally to ASC Pontiacs though it was not routine to get ASC to respond.
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Old 10-31-2002   #9
Chick Walter
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89 Convertible tech bulletins

This is to correct and clarify my comments and recollections when I signed in last evening. Most of what I referred to as "recalls" were Dealer Service Bulletins or technical advisories on 1989 F car/Camaro convertible, including:
• 89-307-10: Top Stack #4 Bow Binding-can create wear areas and holes in sail panel of top.*
• 89-282-10
• Under Hood Squeak - IROC
• Squeak at door to lock pillar interface.*
• Topstack squeaks and rattles.*
• Convertible top bolts loose*.
• Bow does not seal properly to Tonneau Panel near lock pillar.
• Threaded seams pulling loose.
• Top material coming loose from bow.*
• Lock pillar weatherstrip retainer.
The only actual recall campaign I’m aware of was for the top latches* on Camaro Van Nuys cars with VINs between KL100003 and KL210721. Though I had this problem on my GTA, I could locate no evidence through my Pontiac dealer that the Firebird conversions were also recalled. I’ve experienced all those issues that I followed by a[*].
The 89 Pace Car Convertible was shown in the May 1990 Turbo magazine p.40 and was done for the president of the company that assembled Pace Cars.
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Old 10-31-2002   #10
pgh-gta
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I don't mean to be dense here, but I don't understand a portion of your post. My GTA is a 1987 vert. I am the original owner. I have never heard about the contract issues between ASC and Pontiac. My understanding was that the reason ASC stopped converting the cars was that Pontiac installed their own convertible line at the factory in '91.

I ordered the car myself in Feb of '87 and didn't take delivery until Aug of '87. I was told that the reason for the delay was that the digital cluster was on back order. They asked me at least 3 different times if I wanted to change my order to the analog gauges and I told them no way. I ordered the vehicle through Courtesy Pontiac in Longwood Fl. I didn't have to go through a second dealership to place the order. It was filled at that location. My understanding was that the car was built in Van Nyes(sp) and shipped to ASC then shipped to Courtesy.

I am very happy to hear that you do have alot of documentation. I actually have alot of questions for ya. Like I said, I am the original owner, unfortunately, I was only 18 when I bought the car so I didn't think to keep the window sticker and the RPO sheet in the center console fell out soon after.

I have learned in my digging that the Camaro denoted the ASC conversion with the RPO code Z08. Could you tell me how Pontiac denoted ours. If they didn't use an RPO could you let me know how they acknowledged it. Once again I have many questions. If you would rather, we can communicate via email. Also, I live in Pgh, Pa which is about 4 hours from you. Maybe in the spring we can get together some where and meet in person.

My wife still doesn't believe that these cars are that valuable. I keep telling her that in the near future they will be. Hopefully, your papers can help in that quest. BTW, if you read a few threads down from the top, those production numbers are from ASC themselves. Thanks again. Joe
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Old 10-31-2002   #11
Chick Walter
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Documentation of convertibles - Joe

A quick reply now, and a more thorough one later. The contract issues situation was a comment made to me by an ASC employee back in '92--I didn't press further. Since I just got online at home, just retired, and just looked back through my documentation this morning, I will get back to you next week after I have had time to review my files, type up my old ASC telephone notes, etc. The Firebirds were not done at Van Nuys under auspices of GM according to my recollection of a couple conversations with ASC. ASC's Pontiac dealer would order them as T-Tops, then cut them in Michigan and "drop ship" them to the dealers who sold them. This is why e.g. the State of Virginia and my insurer register the car as a coupe, regardless of my informing them it is a convertible. They say they must register as what the VIN number says it is. More later. Your 87 is rarer I believe than the 88s and 89s, but I have no estimates on 87s. I believe I may have a photocopy of the '87 ASC promotional brochure dealers gave out... Do you do Spring Carlisle?
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Old 10-31-2002   #12
gtayumiko
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I have question for you pgh-gta. You were 18 when you purchasing your 1987 GTA, I was 22 when I got my 1987 GTA. I too did not keep the window sticker. I never thinking I would have this GTA for this long now and it seems like this sticker is a valuable piece of car. My question is, is it possible to order a duplicate window sticker from GM? If so how do I do and how much will it cost and what informations would I need to provide to them? You seem pretty knowledgable on this car stuff and so I thought you would be the one perhaps to ask my question. Thank you. Yumiko
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Old 11-01-2002   #13
pgh-gta
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I don't think that you can get a duplicate window sticker from GM. However, you can order a packet from Pontiac Historic Services and I comes with alot of info about your car. I also think that a replica of your window sticker is now available. It costs 35 bucks. I did this a few years ago, but unfortunately the packet was for someone else's car. I never pursued it again. There have been alot of people who have been very happy with the service. I may try it again. Go to www.phs-online.com Hope it works for you. Joe
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Old 11-01-2002   #14
pgh-gta
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Chick Walter, I would love any and all info you can provide but I must disagree again. Sorry. Our vehicles are coupes. They are not t-top cars made into verts. On another 3rd gen website they state that there is an RPO code for the t-top and we don't have it. That is why the car comes up as a coupe. The ASC conversion was aftermarket. It was however factory authorized. If you do the vin decoder it will show you that your car was built in Van Nuys. At least mine did. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I just want to be clear. Also, what is Spring Carslile? Joe
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Old 11-01-2002   #15
Chick Walter
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Joe - I have created wordperfect files for most of my records and conversations with ASC in 1992 and 1996. I'll post them or attach them in a few days when I have been through all my files. Like yourself, everyone I've met with these cars has sought to understand and document their origins. Nothing in my records or ASC conversations indicates they are factory-authorized. My dealer-supplied invoice shows my car as a T-Top, RPO code R6A. The convertible conversion is handwritten onto the invoice as a dealer Floor Plan option. ASC folks said all such conversions were arranged between the individual dealers and ASC. GM then shipped the ordered coupes to a Pontiac dealer in Southgate Michigan for ASC to convert and then ship direct to dealers whom they then billed for the Aftermarket Division's conversion. The ASC promotional brochure, and the convertible to owner's supplement have only ASC designation, not GM or Pontiac. All Camaro convertible articles I have, and conversations with ASC indicate they would only convert cars that had the T-Top due to its structural improvements over a straight coupe. However, even T-Tops are viewed as simply coupes when my State or insurer reads the VIN #. I do not have a VIN decoder. I do not have my original window sticker. I do have a photocopy of the dealer's invoice they provided me when I bought it used. I also have an RPO code book. Spring Carlisle is the Carlisle, Pennsylvania mega-fleamarket, car corral. They also have a summer & fall show, and an all-GM show that I haven't yet caught. Worth the trip. Were all F-bodies built in Van Nuys? What part of the VIN tells me Van Nuys. Understand that does not mean it was converted in Van Nuys. As the dialogue on these sites show, even Camaros got the Livonia treatment - that is why 350s exist in both Camaro and Firebird. I'll get back to you with more complete notes.
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Old 11-02-2002   #16
gtayumiko
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Awesome...Joe,

Thank you for posting this informations. I did look at this site and I am pretty interested in ordering. So thank you very much for the informations. Yumiko
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Old 11-02-2002   #17
pgh-gta
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Your post was great. Just one thought. I have had many recent conversations with GM and ASC along the very lines of factory authorized. I do understand that it was an aftermarket conversion. Like I said, I ordered it myself. It had to be factory authorized. The replacement parts are only available through GM and on top of that, the car was fully covered by GM's original 12/12000 factory waranty. If this conversion was not authorized by GM there is no way that they would cover something that we as owners just destroyed the structural integrity of. Also, the Camaro vert was designated with the Z08 RPO for the ASC conversion. Why would ASC be factory for the Camaro and not the Firebird. It just frustrates me that after all these years there are still so many questions with no answers.
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Old 11-02-2002   #18
pgh-gta
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I also don't like to post other enthusiasts sites here but on www.thirdgen.org there is a vin decoder on their home page. Give it a try.
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Old 11-16-2002   #19
Chick Walter
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Number of 89 firebird convertibles

Update on number of ASC firebird convertibles: Have gone back through my files from 1992 research... ASC reps. I spoke to recalled either 330 or 338 1989 convertibles, depending on who was talking. HOWEVER, in late 1992 I got in touch with an owner-since-new [Formula SLP package convert.] who had made progress documenting the 89s... He provided me a copy of “ASC TRANS-AM SALES ORDER LOG AS OF ...[morning of] 21 AUG 1989” that someone at ASC had provide him. This list shows 369 convertibles shipped to individual dealers [who are named], along with the last 6 digits of VIN#, and the ship dates. Earliest ship dates on list are 12/03/88. The fellow said this was an incomplete accounting of 1989s–was missing about 45-to-49 of the 1989s built [or built in ‘89?... as Hess noted he has a ‘90 that was built in 89]. These numbers are in the ball park of prior postings based on ASC reps’ recall, but are somewhat higher.
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Old 11-23-2002   #20
dwhess504
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chick walter is right, I have a 1990 GTA conv. with a build date of late 89'. I also e-mailed someone at ASC and they did write that it went by the actual year not model year. I unfortunatly don't have any writen documentation on my car.
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