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Old 01-09-2002   #21
87 GTA 1
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I'm just trying to help you out man.As far as gta's being collecter items.Don't hesitate if you want more beef from a carb'ed motor.GTA's are blue booking completely loaded for like 2800 bux.It's sad but true.I would do it if cali smog was'nt so strict.My buddy put a nasty 383 carb moter in his vette.He's running high ten second E.T's.So believe me I've had the thaught your havi'n.The computer shit can get to guy.There's only so much you can do to TPI.Max power and pass smog is limited to about 300 RW horse.Carb?unlimited.
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Old 01-10-2002   #22
nblanchard
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GTA's will be worth a good coin when they becaome classics.... look at the cost of 67 through 69 Camaro Z28's... there a mint to buy...

89GTA... if you take it to the dealer and get a dignostic done... tell them to hook the diagnostic computer up and go for a test drive, and tell them to check operation of ALL sensors.... especially the TPS. Make sure you make that point clear!!!

If your car didn't pull past 4500RPM, chances are it was the same problem as mine, the ECM... Some things do not show up unless you drive the car and do a diagnostic. My car has NO codes what-so-ever (except for the code 12... ECU operating OK code... LOL... B/S!!) ... yet there was a computer problem.

As for PI being the limiting factor for high RPM power.. this is true... but 4500 isn't the absolute most you can get... TPI is built for low RPM torque.... in order to get a high revving engine, you need a ported plenum, large tube runners, and better flowing intake base.. as well as a camshaft that will bring the engine to the high rpm's.
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Best Track Time is 14.396 @ 95.71MPH

225.5hp @ 4250rpm (at the wheels)
325.8ft-lbs @ 3250rpm (at the wheels)
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Old 01-10-2002   #23
87 GTA 1
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Well I personally wouldn't compare our cars to old Camaro Z cars.The Turbo T/A will be collectible along with the 30th anniversary.No doubt.

I couldnt see wanting alot of rpm anyway.The 350 has decent tourqe and thats what moves the car.big horsepower #'s look nice on paper but dont really mean shit.Big tourqe is what's going to move you down the quarter quicker.Unless your road racing doing 100 mph+ all the time I wouldnt be concerned about high revin'top speed stuff.You cant use it in the real world.
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Old 01-10-2002   #24
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i beg to differ... yes, torque is needed to move the car... but horsepower is also important in drag racing. For example... a 10 second Honda Civic, we all know they have sh$t all for torque, but can produce horsepower... yet this car was able to do a 10 second pass... Torque is tire smoking power... but it also helps through the 1/4 mile.
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Best Track Time is 14.396 @ 95.71MPH

225.5hp @ 4250rpm (at the wheels)
325.8ft-lbs @ 3250rpm (at the wheels)
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Old 01-10-2002   #25
87 GTA 1
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BEG TO DIFFER,ASK LINGENFELTER OR ANY PROFFESIONAL ENGINE BUILDER?TORQUE IS THE MAIN THING.WHY DOES A BIG BLOCK 454 BUILT MORE BABY THAN A HOPPED UP 350 STILL KICK THE SMALL BLOCKS ASS?TORQUE.BOTTOM LINE.WHY DOESN'T LINGENFELTER HOP HIS 350 FIREBIRDS UP INSTEAD OF STROKING EM TO A 383?TORQUE.YOU CAN BEG TO DIFFER ALL YOU LIKE MAN BUT MY DAD BUILDS 9 SECOND BIG BLOCKS ALL DAY AND THATS WHAT HE TAUGHT ME.WE ARE CURRENTLY PREPARING TO OPEN UP OUR SHOP.KANE MOTORSPORTS.I'M NOT YELLING SO PLEASE EXCUSE THE CAPS.THIS UNIX SYSTEM I'M CURRENTLY ON USES CAPS ONLY.LATER MANE
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Old 01-11-2002   #26
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digital fuel injection

how much is a setup like this??
does anyone know about digital fuel injection??
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Old 01-14-2002   #27
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Talking carbs

last time i took my car in, they did do a test drive and hook it up to a diagnostic machine. all they said was the MAF. but it wasnt the maf cause after i replaced it, it was still running like crap. i didnt say my car craps out at 4500, i just said someone told me that these cars dont put out much power after 4500. i dont think the mechanics at my gm dealership know what they are doin, i think they are just looking for an easy answer to a hard problem. they mostly deal with icbc repairs, like body damage. (cuz its right next door) and simple serviceing of newer model cars.
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Old 01-15-2002   #28
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Re: carbs

Quote:
Originally posted by 89GTA
last time i took my car in, they did do a test drive and hook it up to a diagnostic machine. all they said was the MAF. but it wasnt the maf cause after i replaced it, it was still running like crap. i didnt say my car craps out at 4500, i just said someone told me that these cars dont put out much power after 4500. i dont think the mechanics at my gm dealership know what they are doin, i think they are just looking for an easy answer to a hard problem. they mostly deal with icbc repairs, like body damage. (cuz its right next door) and simple serviceing of newer model cars.
I have read on other 3rd gen boards that a faulty MAF Relay will throw a MAF code & make your car run like poo, give that a try if you already havent.

Jay
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Old 01-16-2002   #29
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Talking changeing relays

been there, done that. it didnt fix the problem
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Old 01-18-2002   #30
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my buddy has a 91lx shit stang running a 351 with digital fuel injection and hes pushing 750+horse..if i had the dyno sheet id post it...the torque is a tick over 725ft lbs....you can get enormous amount of power with fuel injection even witha tpi
you just need the right setup..
about the whole torque horespower issue...the 1970 buick gs stage 1 455 made roughly 360 horse but almost 550 foot pounds...the olds 455 was 365 horse and 525 foot pounds of torque as was the pontiac 455
the ls-6 454 was rated at 450 horse but that rating was modest at best 500+ was correct and was over 500 ft lbs.
point is the olds buick and pontiac were well down on power to the chevy but were faster in the quarter because of the torque they produced...
teh caddie "500" was 375 horse and 525 ft lbs.
my motor will 100% be built for torque
torque is what plants your ass to your seat and personally i love that feeling
i much rather have 500 ft lbs. then 500 horse
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Old 01-18-2002   #31
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I love the feeling of torque too.... but, I was told that torque is not the whole game... you have to have suficient horsepower for momentum.
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Best Track Time is 14.396 @ 95.71MPH

225.5hp @ 4250rpm (at the wheels)
325.8ft-lbs @ 3250rpm (at the wheels)
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Old 01-24-2002   #32
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horse power = torque x rpm
----------------
5252

therefore horsepower is directly related to the torque at given rpm!
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Old 01-24-2002   #33
ltherin
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didn't display correct BAH

hp= (T x R)/ 5252

hp= horsepower
T= Torque at rrpm
R= Rpm

given the above equation which is true no matter where you use it, driveshaft, at the wheels, it is always true! HP is a function of the RPM and the Torque at that RPM!
Therefore HP is COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY USELESS!!!!!
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Old 01-24-2002   #34
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interesting theory... and I have that and other formula's in my engineering books.... I'll have to run that theory by my profs
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Best Track Time is 14.396 @ 95.71MPH

225.5hp @ 4250rpm (at the wheels)
325.8ft-lbs @ 3250rpm (at the wheels)
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Old 01-24-2002   #35
f-crazy
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ltherin


AMEN to that!!
i love you man lol
a little example..
2002 gt mustang 265 horse 300 ft lbs.
1991 gta 305 230 horse 300 ft lbs. (5-speed)
the shit stang reved faster then me (i heard him get 2nd gear before i did) but we were door to door
because we both make the same torque
from 87-88 the rustangs made about 300 ft. lbs but different horsepower amounts...
thats why no matter what year i race if its stock well be door to door untill 5th gear due to gms installation of a tall 5th gear for fuel economy...thats were the 1LE 5th gear came into play came into play .66 instead of .74
the mustangs would pull away on the long straitaways so gm put the shorter gear for showroom stock racing (1LE cars)
id love to get my hands on one of those
damn i got off track didnt i lol
torque is all that matters!
"crazy"
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Old 01-24-2002   #36
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Question point?

so uh.... basicaly your trying to sell the TPI = lots of torque idea? or are you just saying that torque is better than hp regardless of the intake?
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Old 01-24-2002   #37
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their point is to prove my theory wrong
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Best Track Time is 14.396 @ 95.71MPH

225.5hp @ 4250rpm (at the wheels)
325.8ft-lbs @ 3250rpm (at the wheels)
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Old 01-24-2002   #38
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Cool i see

see subject for more details
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Old 01-24-2002   #39
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value

I needed to reply to 87 GTA 1 on the value aspect of the GTA. I recently wanted to get a consolidation loan at my bank. I told them I could use my GTA as collateral. The value they had on their books for the market value of the car was 7,200.00. I was shocked too.

On the subject of horsepower v. torque, torque moves mass. Why do you think that semis make gobs of low end torque and almost no horsepower. If they had alot of horsepower and no torque they would never get the thing rollin. The 10 second civic someone mentioned earlier does not need as much torque because it has far less mass than our cars. GTA's are the heaviest of the 3rd gens because of them being fully optioned. On the street you want torque. Most street races last far less than a quarter mile (not including highway racing). The person who has more torque and can put it to the ground will win everytime. I would venture to say that even that 10 second civic would probably lose in many street races unless he's squeezin the juice right from the start line.
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Old 01-25-2002   #40
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I'd like to see a semi drag race... LOL... thats my point, pure torqu is not good for drag racing, it needs sufficient HP to go along with it. Torque does not win a race all alone.
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Best Track Time is 14.396 @ 95.71MPH

225.5hp @ 4250rpm (at the wheels)
325.8ft-lbs @ 3250rpm (at the wheels)
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