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GTA DOCUMENTATION/RESEARCH Want to ask about your GTA's documentation, build codes, or other historical data? Then post it HERE!

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Old 04-22-2010   #21
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1badGTA View Post
any 88 5.7 in Columbus wanna test?
If I lived coser Iwould be your huckleberry,lol...
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 04-22-2010   #22
1badGTA
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Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearThisGTA View Post
If I lived coser Iwould be your huckleberry,lol...
But yours,sir, is not stock.
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Old 04-22-2010   #23
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GTA Year: 1989
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

I think the 350 would be cool as hell with a 6 speed ..but I honestly think it would be a good race. Ive noticed driving 5 speeds that they always feel faster than a auto, but the 350 would take the win in this one..my oppinion. Try to find some vids and post them to my site. codys1989gta.sitew.com
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Old 04-23-2010   #24
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Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA50 View Post
So, just enjoy a fantastic piece of North American automotive engineering from 20+ years ago.....

The ZR-1 is 20 years old and there still ain't many rice boy V-6's made that can take it.
Unless you're dropping what, $80K on a homely, stupid looking Nissan GT-R?
Gee, with ZR-1's going for around $25K, is that extra $55K really that impressive? Hell no.

Of course, if dissing "20 year old" American machinery means NOT comparing apples to apples, let's stop and do that.
Japan had nothing back then that could compete at all in the GTA's performance/price range. Sure, you could get a 300ZX that was quicker, but for about $10,000 more. Ouch.

In fact, for fun let's look back at a list of that comes from the pages of the 1991 Road & Track Sports & GT Cars Annual (exactly 20 years ago):

Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR-4 - $31,800
300 bhp, 0-60 in 6.3 sec., 1/4 mile 14.7 @ 95.0, Lateral accel. .086g, 0-80 braking 237 ft., EPA city/highway 18 mpg/24 mpg

Mazda RX-7 Turbo - $28,430
200 bhp, 0-60 in 6.4 sec., 1/4 mile 15.0 @ 91.3, Lateral accel. .085g, 0-80 braking 225 ft., EPA city/highway 16 mpg/24 mpg

Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo - $34,500
300 bhp, 0-60 in 6.5 sec., 1/4 mile 15.0 @ 96.0, Lateral accel. .091g, 0-80 braking 231 ft., EPA city/highway 18 mpg/24 mpg

Toyota Supra Turbo - $31,800
232 bhp, 0-60 in 6.6 sec., 1/4 mile 15.2 @ 93.5, Lateral accel. .083g, 0-80 braking 279 ft., EPA city/highway 17 mpg/22 mpg

Acura NSX - $60,000 (for laughs)
270 bhp, 0-60 in 5.7 sec., 1/4 mile 14.0 @ 100.0, Lateral accel. .093g, 0-80 braking 220 ft., EPA city/highway 18 mpg/24 mpg

Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA - $24,710 (Our Hero!)
235 bhp, 0-60 in 6.6 sec., 1/4 mile 15.2 @ 92.0, Lateral accel. .087g, 0-80 braking 265 ft., EPA city/highway 16 mpg/24 mpg


Wow. The performance figures kind of show that GTA was right in the thick of things, antique motor and all. And for a lot less. Hmmm.
And for the extra $4K to $10K those over priced Pacific rim rice grinders cost, you could put enough extra oomph into your GTA to easily roast even the NSX in the 1/4 mile and probably a road course as well.
I guess that 20 year old technology doesn't look so bad now after all.

But if our goal is to compare 20+ year old F-Body platforms with brand new Asian rides, then it's only fair to drop a nice "new technology" LS1 in your F-Body and run 12's all day a long and get 25 mpg.
And you don't even need to add the ubiquitous NOS stickers or a butt ugly spoiler the size of WGN's broadcast antenna to get it going faster.

Dang clever of these Americans, eh?




PS - We're talking about GTA's 20 years after they were built. 20 years from now, what Japanese car will evoke the memories, passions or iconic place in history the GTA, Mustang, 442, GNX, Corvette or IROC does now?

That answer is a big "ZERO" btw, if anyone needed a hint.
G'night.


.
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Last edited by TexasRaider; 04-23-2010 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 04-23-2010   #25
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Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearThisGTA View Post
Hmmm, not if its been modded....

Ask me how I know,lol....
No to hijack the threat (which is funny considering how many say that when that is exactly what is happening LOL).

Alright Cliff, time to come clean I recall that in a previous incarnation you were with an auto supply company and probably had access to a lot of "upgrades" and "improvements" at a very reasonable price.

So, what do you have happening under the hood and through the rest of the drivetrain on your car?
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Old 04-23-2010   #26
BigBadGTA
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GTA Year: 1988
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRaider View Post

PS - We're talking about GTA's 20 years after they were built. 20 years from now, what Japanese car will evoke the memories, passions or iconic place in history the GTA, Mustang, 442, GNX, Corvette or IROC does now?

That answer is a big "ZERO" btw, if anyone needed a hint.
G'night.


.

I happen to think that is a 100% true statement. I am a junior in high school right now, and a lot of my friends drive rice rockets. I noticed that people have the Japanese cars for the community, not for the car itself. They think they are cool because more people have them than muscle cars, and they know it will be socially accepted as cool or badass. Not out of love for the car, just for the cool dumb ass teenage factor. Which I don't get because I get A HELL OF ALOT more looks and comments in my GTA than all of my import friends put together.And when the new models come out nobody gives a rats ass about the older jap cars. Not to mention my car stock whoops the ass of any of my friends. I still whoop the asses of new cars in my GTA. I have beaten a new G6 GXP, an SRT4 neon, and a couple newer jap cars. From a dig that TPI torque is just unstoppable. Going stoplight to stoplight TPI cars can hold their own just fine, its after that when they run out of breath when we have our problems.
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Last edited by BigBadGTA; 04-23-2010 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 04-23-2010   #27
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1badGTA View Post
But yours,sir, is not stock.
I know, I was just picking and having fun. It is *close to stock though*
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 04-23-2010   #28
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA50 View Post
No to hijack the threat (which is funny considering how many say that when that is exactly what is happening LOL).

Alright Cliff, time to come clean I recall that in a previous incarnation you were with an auto supply company and probably had access to a lot of "upgrades" and "improvements" at a very reasonable price.

So, what do you have happening under the hood and through the rest of the drivetrain on your car?
I hear ya, to start off with it has a LT1 cam, 1.6 rr's with Crane Cam H-ll tool steel springs, double roller tc, from Cloyes, ported base manifold, Acccel runners, ported plenum, 52 mm tb from Edelbrock, SLP Cold Air kit with Knn Af, adj fp gage set at 50 psi, MSD dist, with timing set at somewhere between 12&15*(been too long since I set it to remember ), MSD ign wires, slp shorty plugs gapped at .045, SLP 1 3/4" shorty headers, and y-pipe, no cats, Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust, 3" TPiS driveshaft, 3.23 gears, with Eaton posi, Chassis Engineering sfc's, Lakewood lca's, Edelbrock Adj tq arm, Edelbrock adj panhard bar, and Intrax 2" drop springs, oh, and Edelbrock Stut Tower Brace. On the trans, a TCI 2400 stall, and the trans was rebuilt by a local shop with a few goodies inside .Whew, I think thats all of it. I will say that while some of it was aquired whil working at a parts store, some of it was also aquires through good ole fashion horetradin'
__________________


Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them

Last edited by FearThisGTA; 04-23-2010 at 06:53 AM. Reason: Forgot somethin' lol.. :o
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Old 04-23-2010   #29
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRaider View Post
The ZR-1 is 20 years old and there still ain't many rice boy V-6's made that can take it.
Unless you're dropping what, $80K on a homely, stupid looking Nissan GT-R?
Gee, with ZR-1's going for around $25K, is that extra $55K really that impressive? Hell no.

Of course, if dissing "20 year old" American machinery means NOT comparing apples to apples, let's stop and do that.
Japan had nothing back then that could compete at all in the GTA's performance/price range. Sure, you could get a 300ZX that was quicker, but for about $10,000 more. Ouch.

In fact, for fun let's look back at a list of that comes from the pages of the 1991 Road & Track Sports & GT Cars Annual (exactly 20 years ago):

Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR-4 - $31,800
300 bhp, 0-60 in 6.3 sec., 1/4 mile 14.7 @ 95.0, Lateral accel. .086g, 0-80 braking 237 ft., EPA city/highway 18 mpg/24 mpg

Mazda RX-7 Turbo - $28,430
200 bhp, 0-60 in 6.4 sec., 1/4 mile 15.0 @ 91.3, Lateral accel. .085g, 0-80 braking 225 ft., EPA city/highway 16 mpg/24 mpg

Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo - $34,500
300 bhp, 0-60 in 6.5 sec., 1/4 mile 15.0 @ 96.0, Lateral accel. .091g, 0-80 braking 231 ft., EPA city/highway 18 mpg/24 mpg

Toyota Supra Turbo - $31,800
232 bhp, 0-60 in 6.6 sec., 1/4 mile 15.2 @ 93.5, Lateral accel. .083g, 0-80 braking 279 ft., EPA city/highway 17 mpg/22 mpg

Acura NSX - $60,000 (for laughs)
270 bhp, 0-60 in 5.7 sec., 1/4 mile 14.0 @ 100.0, Lateral accel. .093g, 0-80 braking 220 ft., EPA city/highway 18 mpg/24 mpg

Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA - $24,710 (Our Hero!)
235 bhp, 0-60 in 6.6 sec., 1/4 mile 15.2 @ 92.0, Lateral accel. .087g, 0-80 braking 265 ft., EPA city/highway 16 mpg/24 mpg


Wow. The performance figures kind of show that GTA was right in the thick of things, antique motor and all. And for a lot less. Hmmm.
And for the extra $4K to $10K those over priced Pacific rim rice grinders cost, you could put enough extra oomph into your GTA to easily roast even the NSX in the 1/4 mile and probably a road course as well.
I guess that 20 year old technology doesn't look so bad now after all.

But if our goal is to compare 20+ year old F-Body platforms with brand new Asian rides, then it's only fair to drop a nice "new technology" LS1 in your F-Body and run 12's all day a long and get 25 mpg.
And you don't even need to add the ubiquitous NOS stickers or a butt ugly spoiler the size of WGN's broadcast antenna to get it going faster.

Dang clever of these Americans, eh?




PS - We're talking about GTA's 20 years after they were built. 20 years from now, what Japanese car will evoke the memories, passions or iconic place in history the GTA, Mustang, 442, GNX, Corvette or IROC does now?

That answer is a big "ZERO" btw, if anyone needed a hint.
G'night.


.
Hey Tex,I thought I read somewhere that the GTA in 91 ran a 14.9 straight off the showroom floor, and the Z-28 ran a 14.5 because of weight, and better airflow over the GTA. If I remember correctly, the Vette was only a few tenths quicker because it had slightly better cam, and the alum heads.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them

Last edited by FearThisGTA; 04-23-2010 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 04-23-2010   #30
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearThisGTA View Post
I hear ya, to start off with it has a LT1 cam, 1.6 rr's with Crane Cam H-ll tool steel springs, double roller tc, from Cloyes, ported base manifold, Acccel runners, ported plenum, 52 mm tb from Edelbrock, SLP Cold Air kit with Knn Af, adj fp gage set at 50 psi, MSD dist, with timing set at somewhere between 12&15*(been too long since I set it to remember ), MSD ign wires, slp shorty plugs gapped at .045, SLP 1 3/4" shorty headers, and y-pipe, no cats, Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust, 3" TPiS driveshaft, 3.23 gears, with Eaton posi, Chassis Engineering sfc's, Lakewood lca's, Edelbrock Adj tq arm, Edelbrock adj panhard bar, and Intrax 2" drop springs, oh, and Edelbrock Stut Tower Brace. On the trans, a TCI 2400 stall, and the trans was rebuilt by a local shop with a few goodies inside .Whew, I think thats all of it. I will say that while some of it was aquired whil working at a parts store, some of it was also aquires through good ole fashion horetradin'
Lol, I still forgot 2 more things. Underdrive pulley, no smog pump, heated O2, and ADS Stage 2 Superchip. WHEW!!! I think that is all.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 04-23-2010   #31
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Btw, there is a guy in our neighborhood that has a SRT4, and lets just say he thought that one day he wanted a taste, and he bit off more than he could chew.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 04-23-2010   #32
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Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearThisGTA View Post
Btw, there is a guy in our neighborhood that has a SRT4, and lets just say he thought that one day he wanted a taste, and he bit off more than he could chew.
SRT 4s stock will beat a GTA.

SRT4s with a few minor modifications blow the doors off a GTA.

I know this because I was at track day when a neon club was there.

SRT4s have a very good turbo setup for the engine. Yes I beat them off the line, but by about 1/3 down the track he was accelerating past me.
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Old 04-23-2010   #33
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by merc3065 View Post
SRT 4s stock will beat a GTA.

SRT4s with a few minor modifications blow the doors off a GTA.

I know this because I was at track day when a neon club was there.

SRT4s have a very good turbo setup for the engine. Yes I beat them off the line, but by about 1/3 down the track he was accelerating past me.
Maybe a stock GTA, but my car is not exactly stock anymore. I would be willing to guess that(again once I get a job, ) that I *should* be able to put my car in the high 12's with some sticky tires(better driver,lol), and a pinion angle adjustment, or 2.
I think the biggest mod imho, would be the driver mod. I really hmmm well, suck as a drag racer,lol..
But, back to this particular srt4 racer, to say I left him would be an understatement More like, hmmm, I never saw him again, and up til the point prior to that he was on my rear, like glue. Once I nailed it, I never saw him again.

I am not bragging(well maybe a little,lol ), instead what I am trying to point out is that, the GTA is a fast car, and even though its 20 years old, with a few mods, it can run with the best of them all day long.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rt-4-road_test
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 04-23-2010   #34
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GTA Year: 1988
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

The z28 was a tpi 305 with work done and a 5 speed. Who told you a v-6 import will go by a 5.7l GTA, cause I havent got past by one yet!! The 350 cars are quick and when I pull in the "import" lot on the pike I get all the looks.
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Old 04-23-2010   #35
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Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

So I guess I have best of both almost 5.7 with swapped 3:45 gears, now only if I had a 5 speed to go with it.
Hey 1badGTA noticed you switched wheels want to sell you originals?

Bud.
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Old 04-23-2010   #36
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Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by southgta View Post
So I guess I have best of both almost 5.7 with swapped 3:45 gears, now only if I had a 5 speed to go with it.
Hey 1badGTA noticed you switched wheels want to sell you originals?

Bud.
No way!
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Old 04-23-2010   #37
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Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearThisGTA View Post
Hey Tex,I thought I read somewhere that the GTA in 91 ran a 14.9 straight off the showroom floor, and the Z-28 ran a 14.5 because of weight, and better airflow over the GTA. If I remember correctly, the Vette was only a few tenths quicker because it had slightly better cam, and the alum heads.


If I remember, the Vette's L98 was a 4 bolt main, the F-Body got a two bolt main. Other than that, their performance was closer than GM wanted folks to know.


Back to the subject I ranted on, though:
The real gem of American muscle cars, especially the latter 1980's through the 1990's, is that they are so easy to hot rod. 305 F-bodies can have 350's dropped in easy, or even LT1's or LS1's. Auto to manual swaps are fairly do-able, too. Most ricers are going to have to have external help to get any horsepower (nitrous, turbo or supercharging) and there is no guarantee their little motors can take that punishment for very long.

The ricers I've talked to (who drive stuff like the MR2, Eclipse, SRT, that kind of crap) who've been street racing any length of time have said it's not a matter of when they replace/rebuild their motors, it's when. Most Asian cars were just not made to take 1/4 abuse. Can they be made fast? Hell, yes. Can they take the pounding a cast iron block American V-8 can take? No way, not on this or any other of the planets God made in this universe.

And again, in 20 years, who is going to remember an Eclipse, CRX other VTEC garbage with fart pipe exhausts and neon lights under the frame? Heck, on any given Saturday night on the drag I'd get more attention in a 1986 Pontiac Grand Prix 2+2 Aerocoupe or a 1984 Olds Hurst with lightening rod shifters (and their wheezy smog dog 305's) than any ricer made today. Why? Because their cool and have stayed that way. Can't say that about all the silly wings, spats, spoilers, flairs, stickers and stupidity the Jap car craze puked forth.


Just my trollish humble opinion.






>
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Last edited by TexasRaider; 04-23-2010 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 04-23-2010   #38
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Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Amen!
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Old 04-23-2010   #39
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Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRaider View Post

The ricers I've talked to....

>
Just curious TR, but in what capacity are you talking to them in?

To the original discussion, I agree, with a few mods, these cars move. For me the debate between 305/5-speed and 350/auto was solved with the Firehawk test car with the 350/manual combo.
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Old 04-24-2010   #40
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GTA Year: 1988
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: which is quicker? 5.7 auto or 5.0 5-speed?

I agree with every comment about the "rice rockets". They all look like they got way to many Gift Cards to Pep Boys (buying every obnoxious wing, spoiler, decal sticker, blinking light etc.) and the exhausts sound like me after a night of Taco Bell and Coronas. The day someone says "Hey, member the 88 Eclipse, how nice was that car?" I'll crap in my pants!! Nothing beats the sound of an american small block or big block or the body lines of the 82-92 F-bodys!!
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