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Old 05-05-2007   #1
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

Which TCI Torque Converter does everyone feel is a good replacement for the stock item in my 1991 GTA, 5.7 with 3.23 gears? A few of you recommended the TCI Breakaway, some felt the Vigilante was a good bet. I noticed that the bottom stall for the Vigilante is 2400, where the Breakaway is 2200. What's the term stall refer to? My GTA usually shifts out of gear at 1900; is that stall? or is not that simple?

Here's the link to TCI's website. Go to the bottom for the chart showing there spec's on the stall. Click here
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Old 05-05-2007   #2
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARRYS91GTASLP
Which TCI Torque Converter does everyone feel is a good replacement for the stock item in my 1991 GTA, 5.7 with 3.23 gears? A few of you recommended the TCI Breakaway, some felt the Vigilante was a good bet. I noticed that the bottom stall for the Vigilante is 2400, where the Breakaway is 2200. What's the term stall refer to? My GTA usually shifts out of gear at 1900; is that stall? or is not that simple?

Here's the link to TCI's website. Go to the bottom for the chart showing there spec's on the stall. Click here
I found this at Edge Racing: Click here
What is Torque Converter Stall?

The easy answer is: The RPM a torque converter will allow the engine to attain with a given engine torque input.

How is Torque Converter Stall Measured?

That's where the confusion begins between the racer and the high-performance torque converter builder. Stall is measured in three different ways. TRUE, BRAKE and FLASH Stall. The only true way to set stall is using TRUE stall math.

What is TRUE Stall?

True stall is measured with the transmission locked (Trans brake) and the drive shaft still. The throttle is then fully depressed and held to obtain the holding RPM of the torque converter. This is the "TRUE" Stall.

What is Foot Brake Stall?

This is attained with the transmission in gear and the brakes depressed fully. Now slowly apply the accelerator. The RPM the engine reaches the moment before the tires spin is known as the "BRAKE" Stall. BRAKE Stall is not a consistent way to measure your stall converter and has many variables. This method will be lower then TRUE stall by 400-800 RPM.

What is FLASH Stall?

Flash stall is generally read while the car is in motion. While rolling at a slow speed the throttle is depressed fully to see where the RPM will flash (or peak). This method will not be true if tires spin or car is rolling too fast. Due to the turbine already turning in the torque converter we end up with less torque multiplication. This will give you a lower stall reading of between 200 and 600 RPM under the converters TRUE stall in the same application.

Why do I need a CUSTOM built high stall torque converter?

A torque converter that has a part number has many applications. Many manufactures sell you the same advertised 3200 rpm stall converter for your small block as they would for the next customers big block. This will always result in two very different stall settings ... Do you need a custom built high stall torque converter? Perhaps you don't, but building the units on a one to one basis allows us to put out a product that is configured correct the FIRST time. This is done using a "Performance Torque Converter Application Sheet." It's with this information we can custom configure your high performance torque converter to get the most gains from the performance upgrade.

Why not just buy the "other guys" $99 special?

I was always told that "You get what you pay for." This has never been truer than with a torque converter. Some racers will spend thousands of dollars on the drive train, only to lose 30% of that hard-earned power in a cheaply designed torque converter. Inefficiently stalled torque converters build unwanted transmission heat and never get close to coupling one-to-one (pump to turbine).

Remember! There is more to life then the first 60 feet!

What do we mean by "Specs"?

By "specs" (specifications), I mean the things that add up when building a Custom High Stall Torque Converter, like displacement, cam, horse power, torque--as well as the car or truck it's in--transmission, point of shift (RPM), application (drag, street, street and strip), rear end ratio, tire size, and over all weight. This information is used to tailor your custom torque converter for maximum torque multiplication and efficiency.
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Old 05-05-2007   #3
MunsonGTA
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

do you plan on ever changing intakes? or are you going to stick with the LTR setup? i'd personally go with the street edge TC.

LTR: stall between 2000 - 2500
hsr,miniram,superram,carb: stall between 2800-3000
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87 GTA: Forged 408 LSX short block, TEA stage 2 cnc ported 243 heads, BTR Stage 3 stroker cam, Fast 102 intake, NW 102 TB, Longtube headers, custom 411 ECM, custom harness, custom tuned, Performabuilt stage 2 4l60E with PTC 2800 stall, 9 bolt rear with 3.70 gears and TAP girdle.

11.16 at 123 mph.
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Old 05-05-2007   #4
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARRYS91GTASLP
I found this at Edge Racing: Click here What is Torque Converter Stall?
Here's the chart showing all the applications. Someone here had once told me that they had the Breakaway, part number 242800:

Click here for the chart

This is the Breakaway for Lock-up Transmissions. I assume mine is the Lock-up, right?

Click here for the TCI Breakaway for the 700/4L60E Breakaway® Lock-up 30-spline
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Old 05-05-2007   #5
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunsonGTA
do you plan on ever changing intakes? or are you going to stick with the LTR setup? i'd personally go with the street edge TC. LTR: stall between 2000 - 2500 hsr, miniram, superram, carb: stall between 2800-3000
Munson, here's the link to the Edge Website.
Click here

Yes, I'm staying as is on my runners. The Mild Street Edge would be the best bet as far as Edge Torque Converters. The next step up (The Street Edge) seems more for racers.
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Old 05-05-2007   #6
MunsonGTA
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GTA Year: 1987
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

yes you have a 30 spline lockup
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87 GTA: Forged 408 LSX short block, TEA stage 2 cnc ported 243 heads, BTR Stage 3 stroker cam, Fast 102 intake, NW 102 TB, Longtube headers, custom 411 ECM, custom harness, custom tuned, Performabuilt stage 2 4l60E with PTC 2800 stall, 9 bolt rear with 3.70 gears and TAP girdle.

11.16 at 123 mph.
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Old 05-05-2007   #7
MunsonGTA
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GTA Year: 1987
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

the mild street edge at 2400 rpm or the tci breakaway would be fine
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87 GTA: Forged 408 LSX short block, TEA stage 2 cnc ported 243 heads, BTR Stage 3 stroker cam, Fast 102 intake, NW 102 TB, Longtube headers, custom 411 ECM, custom harness, custom tuned, Performabuilt stage 2 4l60E with PTC 2800 stall, 9 bolt rear with 3.70 gears and TAP girdle.

11.16 at 123 mph.
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Old 05-05-2007   #8
MunsonGTA
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GTA Year: 1987
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

tci breakaway: $579.92 the version made for our car is an actual 12 inch converter

mild street edge: $324.50
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87 GTA: Forged 408 LSX short block, TEA stage 2 cnc ported 243 heads, BTR Stage 3 stroker cam, Fast 102 intake, NW 102 TB, Longtube headers, custom 411 ECM, custom harness, custom tuned, Performabuilt stage 2 4l60E with PTC 2800 stall, 9 bolt rear with 3.70 gears and TAP girdle.

11.16 at 123 mph.
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Old 05-05-2007   #9
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

I think it was me that told you, b/c I have one and luuuuuuvvvvv it!! Oh and its 2200 to 2400 stall speed. Trust me you wont be sorry you got one. I have had it in my car for quite a few years now and it works great.
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1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 05-06-2007   #10
Fred91GTA
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

On my SLP GTA, before running the T-RAM, I put in a Vigilante 2400 stall. Feels like there was no change in the car's driving habits from the stock converter at normal driving. When I nail it though, is the only time one would notice that a stall had been put in. I love mine. Probably one of the most worthwhile mods I ever did.
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Old 05-06-2007   #11
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred91GTA
On my SLP GTA, before running the T-RAM, I put in a Vigilante 2400 stall. Feels like there was no change in the car's driving habits from the stock converter at normal driving. When I nail it though, is the only time one would notice that a stall had been put in. I love mine. Probably one of the most worthwhile mods I ever did.
Fred, which one did you install:

Click here for the Vigilante descriptions


9.5" lock-up 2004R, 700R4, 4L60E, 4L80E
Single Disc
2400-6000 RPM's

9.5" lock-up 2004R, 700R4, 4L60E, 4L80E
Multi- Disc 3 plate
2400-6000 RPM's

10.5" lock-up 2004R, 700R4, 4L60E, 4L80E
Multi- Disc 3 plate
2400-6000 RPM's

9.5" lock-up 2004R, 700R4, 4L60E, 4L80E
Multi- Disc 5 plate
2400-6000 RPM's
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Old 05-06-2007   #12
HARRYS91GTASLP
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

I found a good set of frequently asked questions regarding stall:

FAQ's regarding stall
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Old 05-06-2007   #13
Fred91GTA
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

I want to say the first one but I am not entirely sure. I bought mine used off my cousin when he sold his Z28. I'll ask him which one it was.
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Old 08-30-2008   #14
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

well I know this is an old post but my two cents is if your going to keep a stock cam and the motor close to stock stay close to the original stall, I think that the original stall for my stock torque converter was 1340 stall, now when I had the transmission rebuilt I was back and forth I think they were going to put a 1500 stall in it but I changed it to the 2000 stall speed. well with the stock application I wish I would have stayed with the 1500. these 350's have a lot of low end torque IMO I felt I lost some of that snap on a regular take off. but on a aggressive take off I get a second gear scratch and a good snap there! but I usually drive normal and like I said I lost some of that power to the ground feel unless it is an aggressive start.
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Old 09-01-2008   #15
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearThisGTA
I think it was me that told you, b/c I have one and luuuuuuvvvvv it!! Oh and its 2200 to 2400 stall speed. Trust me you wont be sorry you got one. I have had it in my car for quite a few years now and it works great.
Absolutely what Cliff said
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Old 09-01-2008   #16
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTAGUY65
well I know this is an old post but my two cents is if your going to keep a stock cam and the motor close to stock stay close to the original stall, I think that the original stall for my stock torque converter was 1340 stall, now when I had the transmission rebuilt I was back and forth I think they were going to put a 1500 stall in it but I changed it to the 2000 stall speed. well with the stock application I wish I would have stayed with the 1500. these 350's have a lot of low end torque IMO I felt I lost some of that snap on a regular take off. but on a aggressive take off I get a second gear scratch and a good snap there! but I usually drive normal and like I said I lost some of that power to the ground feel unless it is an aggressive start.
Sounds like an inefficient converter to me.
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Old 09-01-2008   #17
GTAGUY65
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

No I think it is doing what it is designed to do. Just like if I am on a hill the stock converter would hold the car on the hill, but with the stall speed higher it will roll back at idle, like with any modification I think there is always a lil' give and take....
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Old 09-02-2008   #18
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTAGUY65
well I know this is an old post but my two cents is if your going to keep a stock cam and the motor close to stock stay close to the original stall, I think that the original stall for my stock torque converter was 1340 stall, now when I had the transmission rebuilt I was back and forth I think they were going to put a 1500 stall in it but I changed it to the 2000 stall speed. well with the stock application I wish I would have stayed with the 1500. these 350's have a lot of low end torque IMO I felt I lost some of that snap on a regular take off. but on a aggressive take off I get a second gear scratch and a good snap there! but I usually drive normal and like I said I lost some of that power to the ground feel unless it is an aggressive start.


The only way to only way to truly know, would have to been to get a base line before you put the stall in and then go back to the track and run again and see if it slowed you down or not. "Usually" you will pick up some quicker et's. tey say at least a few tenths.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 09-02-2008   #19
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Re: Which Torque Converter for 1991 GTA, 5.7L?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred91GTA
On my SLP GTA, before running the T-RAM, I put in a Vigilante 2400 stall. Feels like there was no change in the car's driving habits from the stock converter at normal driving. When I nail it though, is the only time one would notice that a stall had been put in. I love mine. Probably one of the most worthwhile mods I ever did.
GTAGUY-

This is an efficient converter. Not all converters are created equal.
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