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Old 03-27-2018   #1
sixguns
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
New project, verified 91 GTA

So I just picked up a new project, and got my invoice back from GM heritage. Could be considered a 'barn find'. Fella had it advertised as a 92 GTA with a siezed motor. Drove the hour down the road with my car hauler to look it over. Turns out it's a 1991 in good shape considering. Only has 107,000 on it. Unable to find the SPI, it wasn't in the center console, and I was unable to get in the hatch (no keys, no battery).
Picked it up for $550 and went to work loading it on my hauler. Was certain this was a true survivor, emblems were right, headlight covers were right, interior, steering wheel, wing, taillights, wheels...it was all correct. She had been sitting for two years, and my little winch was having a time getting it loaded. I kept having to block the wheels, pull a few inches, reblock....and then I saw it...looking through the rear wheel...something wrong here, this has drum brakes!! Now I'm figuring I have a new race car, since this thing is not all original, knowing they put 4 wheel disc on these things for years by now. Just out of curiosity before I cut this thing apart, I went ahead and got the invoice from GM heritage...which listed the J42 credit for rear drum brakes! Fixing to pull the motor and replace with a spare TPI while I rebuild the original motor (seized).
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Old 03-27-2018   #2
JonBlake
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

Nice find, congrats. Good price it sounds. Hopefully you can rebuild the engine. Not so sure it would really matter or not. Doesn't seem these cars are from an era in which numbers matching really matters. I think that factor only really mattered up until maybe 73'. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong about that. In my teens and early 20's I loved modifying stuff. Now just hitting the big "4 0", I don't really mind just as long as she's a running good.

Good luck though on the project.

Last edited by JonBlake; 03-27-2018 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 03-27-2018   #3
DynoDave
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

Great find sixguns. Congratulations!
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Old 03-28-2018   #4
Roadrunner
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

My GTA came with aluminum drums.
I love the feel of the handbrake with drums on third gens. Not as good at stopping but more fun if you are not driving a straight line.
I also dont see much value in matching numbers unless its a low mileage pristine virgin.

Sounds like you got a great deal!
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Old 03-28-2018   #5
JonBlake
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
My GTA came with aluminum drums.
I love the feel of the handbrake with drums on third gens. Not as good at stopping but more fun if you are not driving a straight line.
I also dont see much value in matching numbers unless its a low mileage pristine virgin.

Sounds like you got a great deal!
Yeah I've heard about the front disc rear drum combo on these cars.

BTW - Not sure why you mention drum brakes and not driving a straight line. Not sure what actual driving has to do with the parking handbrake. Can you elaborate on that one?
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Old 03-29-2018   #6
Roadrunner
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv_mdpEVOc8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handbrake_turn

The factory handbrake with drums is smooth and very controllable.
When I was younger I use to do a lot of crazy stuff with my camaro.
I don't do that much with the GTA.
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Old 03-30-2018   #7
89-5.7GTA
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GTA Year: 1989
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonBlake View Post
Yeah I've heard about the front disc rear drum combo on these cars.

BTW - Not sure why you mention drum brakes and not driving a straight line. Not sure what actual driving has to do with the parking handbrake. Can you elaborate on that one?
Jon,

You can make a quick turn, like Jim Rockford used to do on The Rockford Files. Turn the wheel, momentarily lock the rear brakes to swing the rear end around. Sometimes called a "J" turn because the motion is like a J, not a U-turn. But, I like to think the "J" is for Jim, because I love that show.
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Old 03-30-2018   #8
JonBlake
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

Ah....Ok now it makes sense as to why I didn't get it the first time around. I'm not between 17 and 24 years of age. It's nice to know that you don't do this type of thing anymore. In today's world we don't need another unnecessary hazard out on our roads. We've already got enough of that right now.
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Old 03-31-2018   #9
Roadrunner
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

You got the age about right.
Population was lower then and I was in a more rural area so finding deserted areas was easy.
James Garner made that look so easy. He did his own stunts since the other drivers they tried couldn't do it as well.
Prior to the 3rd gen, I had a 2nd gen and never tried anything close to that.
Second gen doesn't have a panhard bar so wheel hop was an issue and parking brake was foot instead of hand.
Third gen is much more refined and easier to handle.
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Old 03-31-2018   #10
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

Commonly seen in TV show chases in city streets, it is sometimes called a park brake 90 as well.

I preferred the foot brake. You can modulate it with your foot, and keep both hands on the wheel. It's a lot easier. But to each his own.
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Old 03-31-2018   #11
89-5.7GTA
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GTA Year: 1989
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

I happened to think, some of you folks may not have been born when The Rockford Files was originally on television. I'm dating myself.
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Old 03-31-2018   #12
Roadrunner
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

I remember when rockford was on.
I think I don't like the foot ebrake because I have always had manual trans cars and didn't have enough feet - lol
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Old 04-02-2018   #13
JonBlake
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoDave View Post
Commonly seen in TV show chases in city streets, it is sometimes called a park brake 90 as well.

I preferred the foot brake. You can modulate it with your foot, and keep both hands on the wheel. It's a lot easier. But to each his own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoDave View Post
Commonly seen in TV show chases in city streets, it is sometimes called a park brake 90 as well.

I preferred the foot brake. You can modulate it with your foot, and keep both hands on the wheel. It's a lot easier. But to each his own.
I did a little online research since this topic came about and found out a few interesting things. First, this type of thing is also referred to as a bootleg turn, smugglers turn or simply a "bootlegger".

I did watch a few vids of this maneuver. From what I see, it must take a lot of practice to perfect and the amount of practice before become proficient would most likely tear up a car. A factory third gen probably wouldn't hold up too well after a few of those attempts, and that's if it's not hit anything in the process.

Mentioning TV and movies with this type of maneuver - I never knew how they were able to swing those cars around like that, until now. I would have never guessed it was done with the use of the parking brake.

Lastly, in regards to them doing this for movies and TV, those type of scenarios are played out on movie sets. Basically a very controlled environment with very ideal conditions. Someone just going out and doing this out in public is pretty reckless, IMO. Matter of fact, I ran across a few very notable examples on youtube such as the ones below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHbn4Y8Y8h0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEnQ-MgbZiY
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Old 04-02-2018   #14
89-5.7GTA
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

At least they put their hazard flashers on in the second video!
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Old 04-04-2018   #15
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

Agreed Jon. I've never done this on public roads. I am a Certified Instructor of Advanced Driver Education. But I have not done any teaching or practicing in quite a few years. We taught police, EMS, executive chauffeurs, etc. certain safety and evasive maneuvers. The 90 I could do. The full 180 is more difficult. Our instructor had an incredible feel for these things. And this in ex-State Police Dodge Diplomats!

SPOILER ALERT: Most movies and TV...when you watch the scenes, you will almost always seem multiple skip marks on the pavement where they have rehearsed the scene prior to the final shot they use. Sort of ruins the spontaneity of it when you watch these films and see that. Like the chase in Bullet, etc. But it doesn't stop me from enjoying them.
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Old 04-04-2018   #16
JonBlake
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoDave View Post
Agreed Jon. I've never done this on public roads. I am a Certified Instructor of Advanced Driver Education. But I have not done any teaching or practicing in quite a few years. We taught police, EMS, executive chauffeurs, etc. certain safety and evasive maneuvers. The 90 I could do. The full 180 is more difficult. Our instructor had an incredible feel for these things. And this in ex-State Police Dodge Diplomats!

SPOILER ALERT: Most movies and TV...when you watch the scenes, you will almost always seem multiple skip marks on the pavement where they have rehearsed the scene prior to the final shot they use. Sort of ruins the spontaneity of it when you watch these films and see that. Like the chase in Bullet, etc. But it doesn't stop me from enjoying them.
This one of your former students driving the Stang? LOL This one's a youtube classic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60G1litG8B8
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Old 04-04-2018   #17
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

In the Mustang? I hope not, though he's showing some good car control.

We didn't teach the PIT maneuver. And those look like CHP units (they have their own school). We focused on small departments that could not afford to have their own instructors, training cars, and track.
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Old 04-05-2018   #18
JonBlake
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Re: New project, verified 91 GTA

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Originally Posted by DynoDave View Post
In the Mustang? I hope not, though he's showing some good car control.

We didn't teach the PIT maneuver. And those look like CHP units (they have their own school). We focused on small departments that could not afford to have their own instructors, training cars, and track.
Yep, the Mustang. He was definitely doing some really good bootleg turns to counteract the PITs.
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