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GTA NON-TECH Got a question about non-mechanical items related to your GTA.... whatever they may be? Then post it HERE!

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Old 08-29-2002   #21
f-crazy
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he also stated that with a little more massaging he could of gotton another 30cfm on intake and 20 on exhaust
i think theres a part 4 ill look
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Old 08-29-2002   #22
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the link to this one is dead but here are his final flow numbers

the final numbers @ .6 inch lift are 265/192 with 2.02/1.6 and the Pro Flow valves.

383 that I'm building for the Iroc as well. Should be around 900 hp *pray to the car gods*. BTW the AFR 195's flow 262/192 @ .6 standard, though the competition package goes to 280/208.


id say this is goddamn impressive..
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Old 08-29-2002   #23
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Talking

done on stock castings... very much so... i was looking at a new set of heads until I read that post... unreal
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Old 08-29-2002   #24
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so why spend 1300 bucks+ on a set of afr's when u got them in your ride right now?

even if u cant/dont want to hog them out yourself take them to a machiene shop have them do it and put in the valves and you have a set of heads identical to 1300 heads for 5-600 bucks....im really hoping you go this way and take that other 700+ and spend it on MORE POWER!!! lol
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Old 08-29-2002   #25
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the AFRs are pretty good heads and new casting... aluminum and come with valves, and each port is identical and blah blah...

people always say you get what you pay for...

well i see idiots that buy x-box boxes... 280$ stealth rams going for $450+ on ebay ( i felt bad for that guy so i wrote him an email) ... and stuff that just makes you go why?? i think there are many ways of going about something

ive talked myself into doing this...ill take pics of the progress... ill get them flowed as well (if any places around here can do that)

ill think about what im gonna do intake wise when the heads come off this weekend
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Old 08-29-2002   #26
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im glad youve decide to do your own heads...youll be more then pleased with the results...post pictures and let us know your progress and how long its taking
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Old 08-29-2002   #27
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Ok if what this guy says is true, he did alot of work into a inferior head. Ask yourself one question before you decide on keeping the L98's. How well will this EXTREEMLY ported head hold up to the pressures I am going to be putting on it? Think reliablility. I wouldnt put those heads on anything but a weekend warrior and hope for the best. If you at all plan on making it a daily driver "street king" dont be fooled by what one does, when countless others have done differently. There is wisdom in numbers.....

But f-crazy....just to burst your bubble those heads still flow no where near AFR 190's....unported!

Look at the chart for the AFR 190's and you will see that out of the box they flow at around 20CFM's more over the entire range!

If you are seriously considering a head swap but are afraid of the prices of AFR's. Do yourself a favor and look into some trick flow 23 degree. @ about $700 a set its only a few hundred more than all that work you would have to get done at a head shop...

I am really not trying to be argumentitive here guys.....it looks like that guy did his homework and put some time into his project. But believe me when I tell you that its not as good as it sounds. It just cant be. Stock gm l98's are so small to begin with....where was the room he used to port those heads?????

ARGGHHHH I am baffeled .....just dont seem right(sigh)
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Old 08-29-2002   #28
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BTW the AFR 195's flow 262/192 @ .6 standard
final flow numbers

the final numbers @ .6 inch lift are 265/192 with 2.02/1.6

there are nearly identical yea the arf's will flow better ported but these heads will flow damn good...this guy knows what hes doing and and im sure he took into consideration the water jackets and pressures and what not...hell ill e-mail him and ask him the question that youve just asked....

i ado agree that it was alot or meat to remove but hes done it and the results are there
ill post his replay to my e-mail
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Old 08-29-2002   #29
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Just a suggestion......lol

When you talk to the guy he is gonna tell you that he took everything into account. I mean...who would write all that and then turn around and say..ooops, oh yeah, S#IT!

It doesnt seem like I am turning any heads here(no pun inteaded) So ill just shut up and let you guys find out for yourselves. Cant say I didnt warn ya though....

.....If it does work and hold up to the test of time, I will crawl into the street and shoot myself. For then I will have seen everything. GM designed a stock high performance head and put it in sheeps clothing!

LOL...now im just bitching
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Old 08-30-2002   #30
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you crack me up brotha lmao.....i think this guy did it about a year ago and hasnt said anything about having problems...but ill e-mail him to fin dout whats been going on....
about u bein baffled im right there next to you....i didnt beleive it untill i read all 4 parts and saw his final flow numbers he also attached a afr 195 flow chart but i couldnt copy it to here..

ill e-mail him in the morning ive been to busy runnin my 9 sec z06 and my low 10 sec ss (damnit i want that tenth to break the 9's lmao) in gran turismo 3 on PS2 lmao....the z06 is 811 horse and the ss is 765..its great when u have 5 million bucks to play with lol
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Old 08-30-2002   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by f-crazy
you crack me up brotha lmao.....i think this guy did it about a year ago and hasnt said anything about having problems...but ill e-mail him to fin dout whats been going on....
lol
Actually the post took place and was a work in progress only 4 months ago. He also didnt mention if he installed the heads or not. And has yet to PROVE anything. Not that I doubt him(well I do actually), but spending as much time around racers as I do you kind of get the idea of just how far you can go with stock equipment.

If I was even considering doing a job like this....I would do one thing first. I would do a side by side comparison. I would bring one of my heads down to a local race shop and look at a set of AFR or Trick flows or whatever. I would see the diffference in the "meat" of the head and quickly change my mind. LOL.

This is becomming an obsession with me. I just cant believe that you can take a stock GM l98 head and turn it into the beast that he is proposing. Those numbers are significant. And if what he says is true than I have to question the stability of end product. Have you ever done a head swap on one of these? I have....twice. And both times I was amazed at just how much larger the aftermarket heads looked. I was afraid both times that they wouldnt fit! The stock heads are puny! No meat on them what so ever.

I know I am being pig-headded here. But until I see some proof I will be sceptical. He works in a machine shop for F*ck sake! Why hasnt he posted flow bench slips? Has he dynoed it? What is his trap speed? These would be things that I would have to see before I sunk $700+ into stock equipment.
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Old 08-30-2002   #32
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lol i think this guy blew your mind rich i dont think the guy took much outta the heads... he just did really really good work on the bowls... and the fact that they are cast im sure they would work pretty good...

i looked at the price of valves, retainers, etc etc..

valves - 300US
retainers - 150US
locks - 50US
decking - 75US

thats like 575US just in parts..

if i sell my stock heads for 175US im in the same boat

and if you can show me a set of trick flows for 700US that will work on my car I will go with those and lightly clean them up...

ive decided to stick with the TPI (same flow and more reliable then the LT1 and a touch cheaper once you add all the costs up)... ive got some runners on the way (hopefully ), now i need to find a good aftermarket base... im shooting for about 250+ cfm per port and I think this is realistic... it should if it all comes to together pump out 400+ at the crank
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Old 08-30-2002   #33
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Well I have looked around for a bit on the TF 23 degree. The prices have gone up since I looked at them last. The cheapest I found them was $960. For that price It may be worth it to look into dart pro1's or somthing. hell maybe even performer RPM heads would be somthing to look at. There are so many to choose from.
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Old 08-30-2002   #34
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i wish i busier at work so i wouldnt have so much time to think about this stuff all the time lol...

the more reading i do the more i change my mind... im going to take my intake and heads off this weekend and sell them to force me to do something or I will never do it

the options i have so far are:

1. Stealth ram + ram air hood + 23deg free flowing heads ~260cfm

2. Edelbrock Base + SLP runners + stock ported heads

3. LT1 intake + TFS heads

I was thinking of #1 as that stealth ram is going to be one of the cheapest solutions. It also has the same runner length of the LS1 cars and probably similar flowing characteristcs...

looking at something like this for a cam 224/224 .561/.561 114 LSA from the LS1 archives that knocks out 400rwhp on the stock heads...

what would be a good alum 23 degree head to use with the stealth ram?
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Old 08-30-2002   #35
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I wouldnt advise the steath ram.....No prvisions for an EGR, clearance issues, testing issues, and lack of commitment for support from Holly. Not to mention that it looks ugly too

You seem more than ready to do work to your car. But have yet to come up with what it is that you want out of your car. All those options are good ideas, but each of them have extreemly different characteristics. So to clarify.....

Option 1) I have no idea. I have yet to hear anything really good about the stealth ram....just what a PITA it is to install. It could be a really good option. If you can get it shipped to you....heard that was a problem. But thats uncharted territory. Travel at your own risk

Option 2) Sounds like a good deal, but if you can get the numbers out of those stock heads like everyone says is possible(here we go again) then your restiction will be your base. Edelbrock makes a good base but will still be restictive to both your heads and your runners(porting would cure most of this, however). SLP siamesed runners flow alot. But over all that would be a good option if you want to keep most of your current torque but move the RPM range of the curve up a little. As well as seeing HP increases over the entire range. Plan to do a cam swap as well with this option and a lot of tuning.

Option 3) This is the option that will give you the OMFG I have created a monster perma-grin. I did this exact same mod on my last GTA 3 weeks before it was stolen. I used AFR 190's and an LT1 intake with a mild cam( I have the numbers around here somewhere if you want me to dig them up). I was amazed at the difference. It was a pure joy. But also expensive compared to the other 2 options. I was also feeding a 383 but it would still be really nice on a 350. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

As for price. Number one will be the most expensive...not the cheapest. The steath ram you can pick up for what??? $800?? What about all the sensors???? How about that new hood? $600-700 there. add new 260 cfm heads. AFR's flow that so what $1300? or ported trick flows...$1000 your looking at a total of about $2400+ all those little things you dont expect. Ask fred about that!

#2 will be your cheapest route. But not by much though and your gains will reflect that. Although you will maintain a stock apearance with a decent track time. So what???? $400 for the base. $700 or so for the head work. and $300 for the runners? Your looking at $1400+ cam and extras.(Dont you dare do all this work and keep that S#itty bumpstick!)LOL

#3 your looking at about $700 for everthing you need for the intake. Again you will need about $1000 for the heads. $1700+ cam and extras and thats one hell of an option.

I think you can see where I am going with this. I was a huge fan of the LT1 when I installed it. I was crushed when the car was stolen. I almost gave up performance cars all together because of that. But my wife found my current GTA and I fell in love with it all over again.

So here I am doing it all over again. But for me I want somthing a little different this time. Personally I want to take the TPI to the furtest reaches that I possibly can. and try to maintain a stock appearance. So ill leave the LT1 up to you guys. Have fun deciding. Remember, its not what parts you want on your car....its what you want your car to do and what parts will get you there..lol Confucious say " Man who dont know where he going, get noplace fast."

Rich
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Old 09-03-2002   #36
Dj92GTA
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Rich.. FYI.. .the stealth ram is only like $500 w/ adjustable regualtor...

OK... I ripped the TPI stuff off this weekend, only took about a couple hours

I've decided to go with combo #3 the LT1 intake option. Y

(1). I found a cheap setup with injectors and everything I need in canada.

(2). The more I looked at the stealth ram I just thought it was just plain ugly

(3). If and when I mess something up the intake only comes off in a couple minutes...

(4) Rich is a good salesman lol

(5) Looks more GMish, more stealth and most people wont know the difference after I butcher them at the track

Here is my proposed modifications:

- LT1 Intake powdercoated blue
- 24lb injectors
- CC306 cam or bigger
- AFR 195 Heads/Ported TFS
- Coated Long Tube Headers
- 1.6 Rockers
- March Pullies
- Remove egr/air
- stock 48mm tb or 52mm ported
- eibach sportline springs
- subframes
- LCAs
- relocation brackets

-2800 stall
- shift kit
- tranny cooler

and pray i dont break open the rear


now which would be the better heads to go with... ill probably just look around and find somebody selling a set used...
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Old 09-03-2002   #37
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You do realize that the LT1 intake needs to be modified to fit on your GTA. You will need to drill a hole for the distributor, as well as relocate your thermostat.
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Old 09-03-2002   #38
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yep... i plan on sending it to the www.lt1intake.com guy for all the mods
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Old 09-03-2002   #39
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Sweet. Have you checked out the tech forum and what I am doing to my intake as we speak..errrr, type?
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Old 09-03-2002   #40
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yeah... as I was reading that I was debating about going wild with the porting bits... very good work though rich...

theres too many options my GTA is a freakin accessory in the garage now though... and it will be forver until i get to drive it again.. but it will be well worth it
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