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Old 03-28-2006   #1
K NORSGTA
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Need some input

Hello again, Gathering all the parts to get her back together. In the meantime I'll be needing advice on headers. Will the Hooker 2460-1 or the edl 68753 work on my 5.0tpi? I saw one system edl that had what looked like the air runner w/it, will I need this kind or will a sandard header work. I have read many of you have added headers, and I know here I will have no shortage of advise. lol
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Old 03-28-2006   #2
Fred91GTA
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Re: Need some input

Well, here's the deal. On the 305, you should get the headers that have 1 5/8 inch primary size tubes. Unless you plan on getting a larger displacement motor somewhere down the road. Though you can still get away with the 1 5/8 inch primary size since it'll simply boost torque. The Hooker brand headers are definitely great headers for the money. I've heard mixed reviews about the Edelbrocks, but they have to flow a hell of a lot better than the stock iron crap we have on there right now.

As for the AIR tubes, those are mainly there for emissions purposes. They connect to the AIR pump. You need them to stay emissions legal. As far as I know, Edelbrock for sure offers their headers with AIR pipes, while I believe some Hooker headers also have AIR pipes as well. I have the old style SLP Tri-Y headers and they're awesome headers. However, header install on a 3rd gen is typically a HUGE pain in the ass. Make sure to lube down those old bolts real well before attempting to get them off.
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Old 03-29-2006   #3
K NORSGTA
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Re: Need some input

Thanks Fred, so I do not need to buy a system that includes the air just as long as I keep the stock system. I can get headers only and install fine. When I want to install the headers I will pull the heads and have them ported and polished at the same time. I would tackle that, but I've never done that and not quite sure I trust myself. Any other input?
Thanks again Fred,
Randy
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Old 03-29-2006   #4
vejatabul
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Re: Need some input

smaller tubes do not "boost" torque. restricing an engine will not aid in cylinder evacuation. it will not add cylinder pressure. that is what adds torque. you can make more torque by getting more fuel in the chamber to make more cylinder pressure, but simply choking the motor will simply make less power.

btw, i ran 12.42@108 with a 1 1/2 inch flowtech header on 87 octane, with a bunch of sub-par equipment. swaping to a edelbrock 1 5/8 header gained 35wtq at 3400rpm, the flowtech header made peak torque at 2950rpm, at which point the edelborck header made 22wtq more. moving torque peak to a higher rpm results in more horsepower, i went from 284whp at 6000rpm to 327whp at 6450rpm.
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Old 03-29-2006   #5
Fred91GTA
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Re: Need some input

Quote:
Originally Posted by vejatabul
smaller tubes do not "boost" torque. restricing an engine will not aid in cylinder evacuation. it will not add cylinder pressure. that is what adds torque. you can make more torque by getting more fuel in the chamber to make more cylinder pressure, but simply choking the motor will simply make less power.

btw, i ran 12.42@108 with a 1 1/2 inch flowtech header on 87 octane, with a bunch of sub-par equipment. swaping to a edelbrock 1 5/8 header gained 35wtq at 3400rpm, the flowtech header made peak torque at 2950rpm, at which point the edelborck header made 22wtq more. moving torque peak to a higher rpm results in more horsepower, i went from 284whp at 6000rpm to 327whp at 6450rpm.
True. But overflowing an engine will also not make any power. It's all about balance. You can't run something too big and you can't run something too small. I had SLP 1 3/4 inch headers before the 1 5/8 inch Tri-Ys. That switch alone bumped my torque up about 15lb/ft in all RPM ranges. In your example, you used a 1 1/2 inch header which severely restricted your engine. If you're running a 350, headers with that size primary have no business being on there. I bet if you switched to larger sized headers that your edelbrocks, your tq peak would bump up a little more and you'd gain some more on the top end but you'd also sacrifice some low end tq. In my case, the Tri-Ys bumped my tq on the low end and kept HP in the upper range the same as the larger headers.
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Old 03-29-2006   #6
strc09
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Re: Need some input

Can you get around the AIR system? I want to switch out headers from the shorties I have to a set of long tubes, but I'd really like to get rid of that AIR stuff.
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Old 03-29-2006   #7
Fred91GTA
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Re: Need some input

You can get rid of AIR. Just remove the associated stuff with it. Remove the smog pump and the AIR pumps and run a shorter belt. Or, find a smog pump delete pulley so you can run a standard length belt.

As for K NORSGTA, you would ahve to buy headers with AIR pipes in them. You can't transfer the stock AIR pipes over to headers without a lot of modifications like drilling out the holes for the AIR pipes and welding the existing pipes to them. Much easier to get headers with AIR pipes already built in and the price difference isn't big at all if any.
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Old 03-29-2006   #8
vejatabul
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Re: Need some input

i had a 3500rpm stall and a 242 dur @.050 cam, making low rpm torque(below 3000rpm) will never be a goal i want to achieve, mainly because your horsepower peak will be roughly 1500-2000rpm after your torque peak. a chassie dyno will not show this of course, since it does not show you an accurate measurement of torque to horsepower ratio, and the drivetrain influences the torque output, which in turn influences the horsepower output. basicly, dynos are great for comparison, somewhat great for tunning, but terrible for precise measurment.
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Old 03-29-2006   #9
strc09
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Re: Need some input

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred91GTA
find a smog pump delete pulley so you can run a standard length belt.
Where can I find one of those?
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GTA: Grand Turismo Americano (Grand Touring America)
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Old 03-29-2006   #10
Fred91GTA
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Re: Need some input

Quote:
Originally Posted by strc09
Where can I find one of those?
You can find them on Ebay. Or if you do a little hunting for the part number, you could directly order it from GM.

Hey vejatabul, just curious, what heads are you running? It's a 350 motor?
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Old 03-29-2006   #11
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GTA Year: 1991
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Re: Need some input

I kept the factory belt and just changed the routing. It seems to be ok. I have had it like that for several years now and if I had a scanner I would post it. Maybe I can take a pic and post it. I will try, later.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 04-01-2006   #12
K NORSGTA
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Re: Need some input

Wow, a lot of info it's all great. So 1) Buy w/air system already on headers or 2) remove the air system components and buy plain. Am I on the right track? Thanks guys, let me know.
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Old 04-01-2006   #13
Fred91GTA
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Re: Need some input

yep, you got it. I never really saw the point of taking out emissions equipment. It doesn't degrade performance nearly as much as everybody thinks. Sure, it makes the engine compartment look a lot cleaner, but if you ever move to a state that requires emissions inspections, or if your state all of a sudden decides to adopt inspections if it didn't have any before, it's a huge hassle finding the parts to make it emissions legal again and then put them on. And the weight savings for taking them out is negligible. You'd save a lot more weight just by swapping out to aluminum heads.
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Old 04-02-2006   #14
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Need some input

Quote:
Originally Posted by K NORSGTA
Wow, a lot of info it's all great. So 1) Buy w/air system already on headers or 2) remove the air system components and buy plain. Am I on the right track? Thanks guys, let me know.
You are on the right track. I would go with #2. The reason being is yes it does clean up the eng compartment, but it also makes it easier to work around also. But also what I did was save all of my stuff in a box and should Iever need it again I have it.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 04-02-2006   #15
K NORSGTA
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Re: Need some input

Great, thank all of you. Hopfully last question on this subject. I haven't looked at it closly yet as said befor but if I pull it out are there plugs to buy to replace the air lines taken out? What did you do Cliff about this?
Oh by the way Cliff I found one pic befor damage and being cleaned up. Have it on disc have to figure out how to post it.
Thanks
Randy
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Old 04-02-2006   #16
FearThisGTA
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GTA Year: 1991
GTA Engine: 350 TPI Automatic
Re: Need some input

What I did was get the headers w/o the Air Pipes. But when I removed the exh manifolds and the smog pump and all I just put it in a box and stored it. That way it there should I ever need it. Oh and the pic you need a host like Cardomain or Photobucket to upload the pics then you can post your pic hear. I posted instructions earlier on another post on how to do it. At first its alittle pita but after you do it a few times it gets easier.
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Cliff Jones
1991 GTA Trans Am
w/305,231 miles
on the original motor!!!!
Time of Death on motor, 4:07pm on 05/29/2010.
Hp:211.2@4200rpms/Tq.328.5@2700rpms
Best et: 13.959@97.05mph
Best mph: 98.3
Best 60' : 1.875 on BFG Comp TA's w/ 32 lbs of air in them
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Old 04-03-2006   #17
K NORSGTA
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Re: Need some input

I'll see if I can get through it tonight. Thanks for the input. I'll save parts in the big box. Later, Randy.
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Old 04-04-2006   #18
vejatabul
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Re: Need some input

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred91GTA
Hey vejatabul, just curious, what heads are you running? It's a 350 motor?
that was with a set of vortec heads. they were from scoggin dickey, and stock other than manley stainless steel valves that were stock size, but with a 30 degree backcut. they flowed 241cfm.
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