its december 25 in a few days

[gorin002]

no more Pontiac
thank you mister Obama

[FearThisGTA]

Same here....actually though, it wasnt only him. He had help. ;)

[gorin002]

under George bush and Ronald Regan was still a pontiac
beside Obama who want Pontiac be closed

[Wes]

You can blame Obama for a lot of things but, the death of Pontiac?!? He wasnt the one who designed the Aztek.

[gorin002]

no who is now in control of general motors Obama is t ?

[Wes]

He's not the one making the decisions on which divisions to close and which to keep. GM closed Olds years ago before any bailouts.

GM's market share has been shrinking for decades. Arrogant management and poor product planning have put GM were they are today. That's why Pontiac, Olds and Saturn are gone. Buick survives because they sell in big numbers in China.

[gorin002]

but there is new ceo manager to
put this way he has a finger in it

[Wes]

Clearly, GM had to take drastic measures given the state of its business. Divisions had to close as did dealerships to reduce expenses and streamline operations. Not to mention reducing labor/legacy costs.

Yes, the government made a change in leadership as part of the bailout but nobody in the administration is calling the shots as to what divisions would stay and which would go.

[gorin002]

your right the flop azetec car was a flop CEO manager did t know about cars
as i understand from a video
G.M is in problems as opel is luck opel is still part of general motors
caddilac is gone oldmobile saturn be gone
i leave in the middle but since Obama took over are all sorts of demands
and think he want G.M be smaller.
maby was George bush he would put other manager for pontiac
i don t know mi gut feeling is Obama is t clean

[Wes]

i leave in the middle but since Obama took over are all sorts of demands
and think he want G.M be smaller.
maby was George bush he would put other manager for pontiac
i don t know mi gut feeling is Obama is t clean

Obama had GM and Chrysler submit restructuring plans in order to get public funds as part of the bailout. They certainly were not going to be able to survive using their current business models as they have been losing money and market share for years.. So any bailout money would have been thrown down a black hole.
GM's market share has been dropping for decades. The market has dictated that GM be a smaller comapny, not Barack Obama.

Let's say, your company had 150,000 employees and is selling 10 million cars a year. Now, 20 years later, your company is only selling 5 million cars a year. Do you think your company can survive without cutting its size given the fact that it no longer sells the volume of cars it once did?

That's essentially what has happened to GM.

[FearThisGTA]

If I remember correctly, GM closed Pontiac as part of the acceptance of the bailout $$$$.

[gorin002]

also lot of regulations
here funny american cars have to be smaller motor engine have to be smaller
its non american
and European cars opersite they get bigger
clunker program as i understood was you trade the american car in and get a
japans or a European
the sister of Opel GT was solicter small compact car was for me non american

[Wes]

If I remember correctly, GM closed Pontiac as part of the acceptance of the bailout $$$$.


That's true Cliff. In order to get the second round of bailout bucks, GM and Chrysler had to go before congress and submit their plans to restructure. Otherwise, no money. Which made sense given the state of their affairs and the prospects going forward. Too bad Washington didnt make the banks do the same thing before giving them the handouts.

[ThunderChicken]

...and they still, somehow, got bonuses. :strain:

[FearThisGTA]

...and they still, somehow, got bonuses. :strain:


Especially, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

[mr.turbota]

Funny thing,
Talk to people inside of GM, and they say the same thing.
Obama said no more Pontiac.
Talk I heard at SEMA even.

George :cool:

[Rodimus_Prime]

Obama has nothing to do with Pontiac. GM killed itself a long time ago. It destroyed itself in the late 70s and all through the 80s and 90s. Building cars like the Corsica, engines like the V6 engines of the era and the 2.4 Twin Cam. People didn't want that problematic garbage so they went elsewhere to buy a car. They became complacent and figured the public would just continue to buy their shit just as they have for the past 75 years. Gm really didnt start building half decent cars again till the mid part of this decade.

Can't blame any presidents or any government for the failure of the American car industry. Gm had too many divisions under it in the first place. Take something like the grand prix/monte carlo/442/regal. Do you really need 4 versions of the same car? Do you see any of the imports doing that, no. They didn't waste as much money as the American companies.

I think sometimes being into f-bodies we think GM was making everything else at the time just as well and its really not the case. While an 80s F-body is nowhere near the quality of a car from today it was much better than most others on the market at the time. However the rest of GM's lineup (majority of the cars sold) was not.

[FearThisGTA]

The biggest reason for the failure of GM was and still is their lack of listening to their customer. If they ever do, then and only then will they achieve the expectations that they are so desperately trying to get reach. If you dont listen to what your customer is telling you, the likely hood that your business will succeed is close to slim, and none.

[Wes]

Funny thing,
Talk to people inside of GM, and they say the same thing.
Obama said no more Pontiac.
Talk I heard at SEMA even.

George :cool:

I REALLY have a hard time believing that unless the once owned an Iron Duke Fiero that melted down.

[mr.turbota]

You Obama lovers only believe in one thing.
Obama.
Well, change is surely coming.
Thanks to people like you.
So, do I blame him?
No, cause now I blame people who voted him in.
I was not trying to get anyone to believe what they don't want, only telling you what was told to me from people who are GM employees.
You don't have to believe me.
Disagree with me all you want, because I disagree with you.
I have that right.
For now.

George :cool:

[Rodimus_Prime]

Pontiac was dead before he ever took office, why? Look at the lineup they had

G3 - Rebadged Aveo, which is a rebadged Daewoo
G5 - Rebadged Cobalt that barely even looks different
G6 - At least somewhat original or the closest thing they have
G8 - Rebadged Holden
Solstice - Rebadged Opel speedster

Obama didn't pick that lineup. GM did, the only smart thing GM has done lately is get rid of Pontiac because its pointless to slap an arrowhead on it and call it a different car which is what they have been doing for a very long time. Pontiac would have died anyway regardless of who was president. And these so called "GM employees" if they had half a clue on how to run a business would not have had the issues they do if they had some concept of what the public actually wants. Hopefully they got laid off or fired and replaced with someone that knows how to do the job and not run the business into the ground.

[mr.turbota]

Pontiac was dead?
Strange, they outsold Buick by quite abit.
GM was keeping Pontiac, wanting it to be in the lineup.
Obama sent them back, and said drop Pontiac.
Like I said, even people inside GM say this.
When GM went back with no Pontiac, Obama gave them money.
Saturn could be sold, but not Pontiac.
I wonder why?
Why would GM not try to sell Pontiac, unless someone wouldn't let them.
They didn't even try.

George :cool:

[Wes]

You Obama lovers only believe in one thing.
Obama.
Well, change is surely coming.
Thanks to people like you.
So, do I blame him?
No, cause now I blame people who voted him in.
I was not trying to get anyone to believe what they don't want, only telling you what was told to me from people who are GM employees.
You don't have to believe me.
Disagree with me all you want, because I disagree with you.
I have that right.
For now.

George :cool:

Ummmm, I have never voted for a Democrat in my life.

I just have a hard time believing that ANY POTUS would know enough about the inner workings of ~any~ major US corporation to personally make specific demands on what that corporation needed to do in order to remain solvent.

Now, if GM provided an initial restructing plan to a committee overseeing the TARP funds and in that report, it described Pontiac going forward as a "niche" brand, its quite possible that they were advised to drop that idea.

The notion that the order came directly from the guy occupying the oval office just sounds absurd to me.

[Burkhard]

Hey,
i think it´s a desition of GM Corp and not Obama. See it positiv, you have now and later a very rare vehicle

[Rodimus_Prime]

If GM made the right calls years ago they wouldn't have this problem. Given the choice I'd rather see GM stay around then go off the map completely which is what would have happened if the government didn't bail them out. Who's to say that maybe Pontiac will come back some day? At least its a possibility.